Dan Cumberland

and Robert chat about the importance of building a foundation for your work based on what is important to you and the impact you want to make in the world. There is a meaning and purpose and you should be intentional about declaring it and aligning your work with the purpose and passion inside you. Define success on your OWN TERMS

A little bit about Dan...

Dan Cumberland is passionate about helping entrepreneurs get the insights they need to recalibrate their work/life balance so they have energy and motivation to keep going.

He is a 3x SaaS founder, serial entrepreneur, host of the Meaning Movement Podcast, and Product Strategist with the Venture Studio NineTwoThree.co.  

His work has been featured in Entrepreneur Magazine, Fast Company, and more.

Outside of business he's a father, husband, avid reader, runner, health and fitness optimizer, and volunteer with the Carbon Almanac.  He lives in Seattle with his wife and three kids.

Check out more of Dan

 His most recent project is a software for repurposing speech based audio and video into viral ready shorts: videosnap.io

Website: themeaningmovement.com



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Dan Cumberland
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Show Notes

Robert Peterson 0:34
Welcome to the Add valued entrepreneurs podcast, where we're on a mission to end entrepreneurial unhappiness. If you're an entrepreneur with a burning desire to change the world, this podcast is for you. We're here to help you transform your life in business so you can achieve the freedom and fulfillment you crave. This show is dedicated to entrepreneurs who want more out of their life, more meaning more purpose and ultimately, more happiness. You deserve it all. And it's possible. I'm your host, Robert Peterson. Pastor turned life coach for business owners. I believe that success without happiness is not true success at all. But there's always hope for those who are willing to take action. Join us every week as we bring you inspiring leaders and messages that will help you on your journey towards success. Thank you for investing your time with us today. Let's get started. Our guest today is on a mission to help mission driven entrepreneurs avoid burnout. Having hit the bottom before Dan Cumberland is passionate about helping entrepreneurs get the insights they need to recalibrate their work life balance. So they have energy and motivation to keep going. Outside of business. He's a father, husband, avid reader, runner, health and fitness optimizer and volunteer with the carbon almanac. He lives in Seattle with his wife and three kids, Dan, Kimberly and Robert chat about the importance of building a foundation for your work based on what is important to you, and the impact you want to make in the world. There is a meaning and purpose. And you should be intentional about declaring it and aligning your work with the purpose and passion inside you define success on your own terms. Well, Dan, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Looking forward to a great conversation. I know that we have some good alignment. I appreciate the introduction from our mutual friend. And just really excited to talk today.

Unknown Speaker 2:35
Yes, likewise, I'm just really pumped to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

Robert Peterson 2:39
Absolutely. So typically start each episode just with guests sharing their entrepreneurial journey.

Unknown Speaker 2:45
Man, it has been a journey I started my I started my career as a pastor. So I think we shared that and in common. And when I was in grad school, after that phase of life, the next the next phase, I guess you could say really found that like I guess I I allowed myself to, to lean into this part of myself that was emerging, or maybe naming for the first time that I just really like trying things like starting things, I like having a lot of irons in the fire. And besides just like chase that, pull that thread in follow it and see where see where it goes, I started a photography company started a few a blog, which turned into a podcast and opened up other opportunities, got into software and have kind of been on this parallel path between helping people around meaning and fulfillment and more recently entrepreneur entrepreneurs around those same those same ideas. And then in parallel building software, both for myself as well as for clients and friends. And so I have a couple of software projects that I've that I built myself and then I'm also building building software alongside other people with with nine to three, this team that I'm a part of. So that's kind of the big picture of what I'm up to and how I've gotten here the least the fast version.

Robert Peterson 4:07
Definitely the fast version. So I love the I love the meaning and fulfillment I think we definitely have that in common. I really want to help people understand that they can design a life and then build a business or a job to support it and sustain it. So yes, dig into this value of meaning and, and fulfillment.

Unknown Speaker 4:29
I love it. I love it. Yeah, and that's something I'm so passionate about as well. I think the best business is not the business that will make the most money but the business that we can love and enjoy for the long haul, you know to to a business that that that gives us the life that we want and that supports us in our personal vision for how we want to live and where we want to go not just a you know, a money making machine that sucks our soul and leaves us leaves us dry but with a full A bank account and that's not not a life I want to be living personally. And so it's definitely definitely an alignment there.

Robert Peterson 5:06
Well, definitely the the challenge, I think for many is they can start a business with an idea. And if they don't clarify their meaning, and they don't clarify a purpose, it ends up becoming that money making machine that kind of takes over their life. Yes. And just just by our nature, and I don't know if it's our nature as Americans, our nature is independent, or just the nature of entrepreneurship. But the machine becomes this, this money making driver that they get handcuffed to. Yeah. So how do we help them see that there's another way I love I love that

Unknown Speaker 5:43
you're speaking my language. I like to use the analogy of a Frankenstein's monster, like we have this dream we want to bring to life. And then we bring it to life, and it ends up hunting us down and trying to kill us. Right, like, so. So how do we how do we course correct? I think there's a few a few ways, I think, first is having a clear sense of what is important to you in your life. And establish metrics for tracking those tracking that that version of success, it's really easy to to optimize your business for I mean, shouldn't say easy, but it's, it's easier than some other things to optimize your business for, for revenue, because it's numbers. And you can see the numbers go up and down, the money comes in and out of the bank account. But it's harder to track things like fulfillment, things like happiness, things like health and wellness, things like quality of relationships, engagement with community, your faith in spiritual engagement, all of those, all of those things. And so one way that I like to help people around these ideas is to just invite people, when anyone listening, you can just do this right now think like what broadly, what are the major categories for you in your life, health, wellness, fitness, you have some of those, that's probably a category, relationships, that's probably a category that could have subcategories of maybe the important people in your life, a spouse or partner, kids, all those individual relationships, and go through all of your life and all of the other all the categories, and then just give yourself a health check in like, just spend some time thinking about where are you in each of those categories, if you had to give yourself a score from zero being very poor to 10 being perfect? Like what what would that health matrix look like for you at this very moment. And that can be a really great way to start to quantify some of these things that are harder to quantify. And we just often don't take the time to really, to really realize it or spend the time, you know, putting putting some metrics there. So that's one thing. Another thing that another way that I think is really important, even before we get to that part of the conversation for for people who might might not be ready yet or might not know if it's time for them to do some of this course correction is just to answer this simple question of, if you had to live your last 90 days on repeat, how would that feel? And based on the answer to that question, then think through the next your next 90 days? And what ways would you want to course correct for those that coming 90 days, I find pretty quickly people, you know, either grimace or and say I would not want to do this 90 days again? Or? Or they say yeah, I think there's some pretty clear things that that might need to change. That isn't to say that every season of life is, you know, 100% within our control, and everything is beautiful, and just rainbow and sunshine and unicorns all the time. But broadly speaking, if you zoom out to I think that 90 day window, you can really start to track some themes, like is my life enjoyable? Are they do I have a quality of life that that, you know, that I want? And am I moving in a direction that I want to be moving?

Robert Peterson 9:04
so valuable? And I think that the truth, just like any other thing in our lives, like the idea of losing weight, or the idea of you know, getting out of debt, and in some of those things that if you're not intentional about it, you'll go down a path that doesn't lead to, to the results that you want. Yeah. So be intentional about the life that you want and understand the reality that, that we live in the greatest country in the world. And we have the option to choose.

Unknown Speaker 9:32
Yes, yes. And I think as entrepreneurs, I think you've already kind of begun to name it. Like, we optimize our lives for one particular outcome, which is the growth of our business and we're so focused on especially we're mission driven your purpose here and we got into this with a passion to build something that matters to us. So we're like just so focused head head down, focus on that outcome that we forget all of all of the rest and so what some of what I'm inviting people to and I think you are as well as to just say, let's just like let's tap the brakes a little bit, zoom out a little bit, and then frame that outcome in the context of the rest of your life and the rest of the outcomes that you want to see.

Robert Peterson 10:12
So it's, it's so powerful when when people start to realize that they have choices that they can, they can take an extra day off a week and not lose so much revenue, that revenue. That's, that's excess, really, when they how they really boiled down to what what's important to them. Yeah, helping helping them see that and giving them permission to take a day off to spend with their family and, and do the things that really matter. Because because, you know, we all know that the end of your life when you're, when you're on those last weeks that nobody regrets, you know, going to the baseball game, nobody regrets spending time with the kids. Yes, they regret all that time in the office and all that time arguing with broken relationships. And yes, yes, all of those things. So yeah, well, I think we aligned. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 11:03
And I think, you know, my work of the meaning movement, if I rewind a year plus, was really focused more on career and helping people, you know, answer these questions for film for men calling inside, inside, you know, a more traditional career. And I kind of had this wake up call. That's that about a year ago, that kind of led me to refocus the work that I'm doing with the meaning movement towards towards entrepreneurs. And at that point in my life, I lost my grandmother, my last, my last grandparent, my accountant had been struggling with fighting cancer, and he passed away, a business partner decided to move on to another project and a huge marketing campaign that I was chasing with, with one of my my software's all fell apart. And all this kind of happened at the same time. And I just like was this this moment where I, again, like had my head down, just like pushing through on these things that I thought were gonna take me to a certain destination. And I look up and just realize, like, what, what, what, where am I this isn't where I thought I would be. And especially as like, things are kind of falling apart on the marketing side. I don't even know this, this road that I've been like hustling to go down as fast as possible, I don't know if this road is actually going to take me where I want to go. And so it felt like to some degree, I was sacrificing my day to day to a life that I didn't want in order to get to a destination that may never come. And I think that's where to soak all that back to what you're saying about like, the last days of your life. Not only do you not want to be in those last days, last weeks and have regrets but also you don't know when those are going to come. And I think that was a big a big part for me of like, I don't want to optimize my life for just, you know, for having a should be able to say I was satisfied at the end of my life, but because you just don't know life is fragile. Your health is fragile, the people you love today, like you just never know what tomorrow holds. And so live today, you know, in a way that is bringing you joy and giving you a full life, not just waiting for that future that may never come.

Robert Peterson 13:10
so valuable. Alright, I want to dig into obviously, you and I both came out of a ministry background and now shifted into serving entrepreneurs, how is your faith impacting the work that you're doing?

Unknown Speaker 13:23
Such a good question and not one, not one that I've I've answered on podcast before I appreciate you appreciate you asking that. For me. My faith is it's kind of the foundation that, you know, through which I see everything I don't I don't talk in terms of faith and, and ministry, if you will, and my day to day but but I do think of what I do is very much that helping people live live the lives that they are made made to live from, for me feels like there's a I can draw through line from that to when I was to when I was a youth pastor, helping high schoolers, you know, think about these things in their in their lives. I don't necessarily talk about faith and God and spiritual, spiritual things, you know, with in many of my conversations with entrepreneurs, but it is definitely kind of the the foundation that I can't help but see the world I guess through that lens. So yeah, I'm curious for you, how you would answer that question. If I stood my ground,

Robert Peterson 14:19
yeah, very, very similar. You know, for me, obviously, it is the foundation of, of my life. And, and I feel the same way helping people discover their purpose, what they were really created for, what gives them meaning, is really getting them in alignment with with their Creator, and whether they acknowledge that creator or not, you and I both know that, that it's real. And so getting them in alignment with what's real is still super valuable. And I think, to take that the next step is we're all put on this planet, the meaning is always going to revolve around other people. It's always going to revolve around relationships. So if I can help people discover their meaning, and then start taking better care of all other relationships, that ultimately I'm doing the same thing, like you said, we were doing a ministry is helping people exchange bad habits for good habits helping people treat people, like, you know, the golden rule. Do you want done to you and so, so it really is, I think the biggest piece for me. And part of it is, I served as a missionary for 10 years raised our own support. And there's this crazy poverty mindset throughout ministry and missions work, not so much in all the churches, but there's still this, this, this idea that and language in Scripture can paint that picture, right that, that there's this God and money of opposition. And and if you read Scripture and study scripture, it's actually not in opposition. It's not a competition. There is if you're putting money as a God, God's place, you can honor God and have money, right? I mean, we know that, you know, Jacob, and Israel were rich, Joseph protected their riches through his really, you know, Egypt. I mean, there's there's plenty of godly men that, that, in fact, Solomon who had all of it, yeah, still recognizing that it's possible. And I think, for me, it was coming to realize that the church has gotten so caught up in the salvation message, get people to have and get people to follow Christ, that they miss out on the current life message that Jesus said, You know, if the thief comes to kill him, destroy, right, take lives away, make people miserable, which is happening plenty in our culture right now. But Jesus says, I came to give them life abundantly. Yeah. And so and, and I just believe that, that on the spiritual side, obviously, Jesus is gonna save the soul and in take care of your heart and soul. But it's entrepreneurs and the money that entrepreneurs can produce, that are going to solve problems and change the world totally agree. The church needs money, the ministries need money to, you know, to take away poverty and offer schools and business development in the developing countries, that all requires money. There's no ministry that can be done without money. And entrepreneurs are the best at producing it and giving it away.

Unknown Speaker 17:15
Yes, totally. I totally agree. And I think that entrepreneurship is, is what changes the world. And to have more, more people that are, I guess, awake to these ideas, that that there's more to business than just just the income, but to really determine their success and multiple with multiple bottom lines means they're going to be building better businesses that have a more positive net effect on on the world and on people. And so it just very much very much resonates with me, what your what your

Robert Peterson 17:47
well, it's always good to get to get some confirmation. So

Unknown Speaker 17:50
yes, yes, keep up the good work.

Robert Peterson 17:53
I appreciate that. So, so now we still have this, this push always have, you know, make more money, build the company bigger. And, and even when I think you give entrepreneurs a design, there's still this outside force that seems to, to push against against the design, how do you help them stay aligned? And stay on? Stay on target?

Unknown Speaker 18:20
Yes, yes. Such such a good? Such a good question. I think the first just comes to down to just this awareness piece, like we've been talking about awareness that your your success should be defined by in the way that you want to define it. And that that definition goes against much of the common story around entrepreneurship, you know, 99% of entrepreneurs are not living the lives of the entrepreneurs stories that we we see in the media, which are either like the venture backed, you know, CEO of, you know, the unicorn Silicon Valley. Or, you know, the other kind of parallel to that is just the hustle, the hustle culture of like, grinding it out working harder the next guy and that's how you found find success. And that there's, you know, like I said, 99% of entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs wouldn't fall into either of those, those those camps. And so when we're thinking about our own entrepreneurial path, to know that there are many other ways to go about being an entrepreneur that you don't, you shouldn't follow those, I guess louder. Those, those mythic types, I guess you could say that they get elevated by by culture. So that's the first piece of say, there is another way. There's another way of a slower maybe process is a process that is in more alignment with with who you are. And then disestablishing your criteria, your success criteria, establishing what your quick criteria is to know if this isn't going to work. What are the what are the ways to say this is an endeavor that I I've been chasing and and this is requiring more than I'm willing to give to take it where it would need to go. And so then being willing to walk away if it's not going to work. And then once you have those criteria in hand to establish, check in points to where you could say, you know, quarterly, let's at least let's check in with all of these areas of life and determine how am i How, how successful is my life? Beyond business? How successful is my business? And how successful is my life? And how are those two working, working together? Personally, how am I taking the business where it needs to go and business wise, how's that business taking me where I need to go to have that a quarterly check in with yourself and it could be more often than quarterly. But it starts with reflection, it starts with answering some of those questions that we've already already talked about. And then putting a plan into place to close the gap, if the goal is to have you know, to be increasing your scores in certain areas of life, and you don't see those scores, changing the need to put a plan into place to bring more intention to those relationships to those you know, to your your health and well being or whatever it is. So, you know, one part one part assessment and self assessment, another part, you know, setting those goals and then building a plan to, to close those gaps.

Robert Peterson 21:16
Alright, so one of the recent things that I've really started to see is, how much of our accountability as leaders as business people, is based on fear. And so originally, I started, I was doing some group coaching and, and using the group as that accountability, it was still self accountability, because they were telling the group, you know, well, my goal is to make five sales calls a day, next week, right? And then they'd have to come back to the group and say, Well, I did or, but that's, but it was really fear based, because based on the concern for the opinion of the group. And so now I'm shifting towards understanding why we make the choices that we make, and the brain science and some of the, the decision making and of course, mindset and things behind how we you know, how you do what you do, or why you do what you do? What are your thoughts on fear based accountability versus?

Unknown Speaker 22:15
Oh, man, that's a really interesting question. I, there's an element at which we're, we're wired for connection, we're wired for belonging. And so to hold yourself accountable, like you're saying in the community? Like there's something to that that, wouldn't we have other people that are going to be looking at in the eye and asking, Hey, did you do the things that you said you were going to do? And you have to say yes or no, like it makes? It makes sense that that's a very motivating experience. And I like the with that said, though, I like what you're thinking about, like, how else can we go about? Yeah, building, building a different, a different way to motivate and probably connecting more to those intrinsic that's how we're, I think of it too, is intrinsic motivation versus extrinsic and kind of circled back around to say, if you're not hitting your marks, then is that are those actually the marks that you should be committed to and should be hitting? And if not, you know, is there a different way, you know, for you to go after your goal that's in better alignment, I really feel like there's a balance there. Because because, you know, work is hard. And if we need people to push us to help us you'll take those steps. And that might we might otherwise be, I don't know, hesitant to take. So there is a place, I think, for pushing us out of our comfort zone. But I do think there's a line to be walked where it's healthy versus unhealthy. So yeah, I like I like that you're thinking about it like that you're playing with it? I think it's I think it's, so let's

Robert Peterson 23:53
dig into community a little bit and the value of connection for entrepreneurs, I think, I don't know if it's our independent American spirit that and for me, it's part I started out as a coach in corporate and and we're doing leadership and communication, teamwork, blah, blah, blah, and really didn't like that environment. And so really, like you made the transition to entrepreneurs, but for me, it was because there's so much like missionaries, they're independent, they're doing something nobody else has done before and normally and, and, and the dark side of that is that they're independent spirits that they're the leaders in are afraid. They're afraid to say that, you know, they don't know what they're doing. And they're afraid to ask for help. And they feel like they're supposed to know, you know, all of those things that play against the idea of being open to coaching and being open to. So how, how do you help that independent spirit? Yes, yeah. How do we lean in and create community and connection that adds value to these independent speakers? Yeah, I

Unknown Speaker 25:01
feel like you have you have there has to be openness and willingness. And I think that, you know, for some folks, it might just take a few, a few reps of getting knocked down really hard to the point where it's kind of painful to get back up, as as much as it pains me to say that for them to be for us. So I should say, to be open to, to saying, Yeah, I have needs here and I need people's, you know, other people in involved in my process.

Robert Peterson 25:33
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Unknown Speaker 26:24
because one thing that I hear most often from entrepreneurs is I'm lonely. And they're building their businesses there. They're the only ones who have the the perspective, you know, of the whole picture that their team members, you know, might they have, you know, great, great teams that they're building, but their team members are focused on filling, you know, like the filling in the gaps that are that are in front of them, so that they can then think about the big picture. There's not a lot of other people that are that attending to that big picture alongside them. And so to have people who are who understand like that, the burden of leadership, I guess, to put it in those terms, and who can come alongside each other. I hear I hear a lot of entrepreneurs really asking for that. But again, these are probably folks that have you know, we've been at it for a little while. And we've we've you know, taken some hits along the way. And those hips as much as resilient as I like to think I am over time, like you start to build up a little bit of scar tissue and say, Okay, I might need to, I can, I can take a lot of, you know, some some wild pitches that that, you know, hit me instead of going over the plate. But over time, like that adds up to something that you have to you have to to measure the weight of. So all that is to say like sometimes I do think it might take a little bit of a little bit a few knocks to in order to get us to the place of humility of saying, Yeah, I can't just do this on my own. Yes, I'm better, better together, and I need people in my corner.

Robert Peterson 27:58
So speaking of people in your corner, let's talk about the value of mentors and and finding those mentors for that particular hurdle in your journey.

Unknown Speaker 28:06
Yes, yes. I love that. I mean everything in my life. And I mean, this truly everything in my life has come about everything good has come about through relationships, every everything that I've been able to accomplish, I could not have accomplished on my own. Which isn't to say that I've ever had a mentor who a capital M, quote unquote, mentor who's shown me any of it, right. But what I have had is posture of giving value and building relationships that then when I have a gap that I need to fill up in knowledge and experience and wisdom, I have people that I can reach out to and ask you know about things. And that happens often, even just two weeks ago, it kind of hit this point where I was just spread really thin going go chasing too many cars all at once, and had to kind of do this reality check. And I told my, my wife because she was like, you're really stressed what's going on? I told her you know, all these things. She's like, What are you going to do about it? I was like, I'm circling the wagons I'm I'm calling up calling out, you know, calling up the troops and just booked a few calls with some some folks that I feel like understand me, have seen me in different capacities, and are also business leaders and in their own ways. And then just have an open ended conversation say here's what I'm, here's what I'm thinking about. What do you see that I might not see. And there's there's a name for this called Solomon's paradox that I don't know if you're familiar with this idea of I was I've just became acquainted with it recently. But it's the idea that someone else's problem is easy for you to solve, but you can't solve your own your own problem. And so really relying and I think that's one of the ways that we have to have these people in our lives in order to help us through Are these these sticking points? So for me, it's never been a capital and mentor, I would I would tell, you know, if you asked me, you know, who are your mentors, I, I could pull up some, some names of some people that are like, typically I think people are a little bit older than me, maybe people that are in similar kinds of businesses that I am. But but really, they're just friends. And there's also people that I've learned from who are much younger than me who have just very specific skill sets and very specific mindsets that I know I can I can learn from. And so I do take a very much like a crowdsource approach to mentorship. But I think that having those, those relationships are just essential to life and in business.

Robert Peterson 30:42
Absolutely. Alright, so you mentioned you mentioned your wife, so let's talk about the flip side a little bit, obviously, she's, she's open enough to help help you be accountable to to be stressed out, what are you gonna do? But what do you guys like to do for fun?

Unknown Speaker 30:58
Oh, man, well, we have three kids who are seven, four, and two. So fun is mostly hanging out with them. I mean, a great day for me is when I can just, well, we'll have some sort of adventure, you know, we'd live it in Seattle, go up to the mountains or down to the water and just explore nature, do it together, maybe play some games with them. You know, before before kids, we would hike, backpack, that kind of thing, do the those kinds of things together, but now it's just all about, it's all about the kids and really trying to enjoy them and enjoy who they are at this moment. Because it's ever evolving, ever changing. And then also, you know, trying to give them an experience that have childhood that that's going to form them in a really positive way. Oh, my camera. Here we go. Fixed it.

Robert Peterson 31:57
color screen.

Unknown Speaker 32:00
Camera, check. Make sure everybody's awake.

Robert Peterson 32:03
Perfect. I gotta make a note. Yep. Sorry about that. Oh, no worries. We don't add it much. But I'll add it that. Yes. So the next question, I guess, sticking with that that person, what's your most memorable date with your wife? Ooh,

Unknown Speaker 32:20
Memorable Date. Oh, man. The I mean, the first thing that came to mind was literally my first date with my wife was back in back in college. We we friend, it was like a double a double date with another couple is wild that it goes back this far. But we had a friend, we paid a friend to build the scavenger hunt all over Chicago that took us all night to, to, to do very much like a college college thing. And it was a blast. And it was like one of the most it was I mean, especially because it was our first literally our first date already a memorable night even if it hadn't worked out as well as it did. That that comes to mind as just a really amazing experience. Beyond beyond that, we love just good food. We recently went to a yeah, just you know, just going out to new restaurants. We went to Ethiopian restaurant not too long ago, that was just a really special experience. We Yeah, things things like that. That's a lot of you know what we do on date nights. Just just really what I look forward to most is just having that dedicated time thing, especially with kids to talk and to catch up to talk about the things that we're talking about here. How are we doing? And how, what how are we measuring success? And what are our goals right now? And how are we doing with all of those things and some of the some of the conversations are our date nights can look a little bit like a business meeting maybe to the to the outsider. But that's how we do life and we love it. So it's really good.

Robert Peterson 33:58
Let's dig into that. Obviously date night is a commitment. So sounds like you have a regular commitment to date night. How valuable is that as a non negotiable to your business.

Unknown Speaker 34:11
For me, it is absolutely a non negotiable. For us. It hasn't always looked like a formal formal date night. But for a long time, it was a 5am business meeting, we would at 5am Because kids get up early, we need time to connect personally, you know, to have just to feel like we're on the same page to talk about things that we're thinking about with our businesses. She's also an entrepreneur and a music educator. And so, to have that space to to problem solve together to be on the same page together and then also just talk through logistics of running a household of you know, with five people is it's a lot. I pointed that as being the most essential and so whether that happens on a date night once a week or whether it happens that you know, groggy 5am over a cup of coffee I'm not too concerned about it, date nights, you know, maybe are maybe a little bit more more sexy to talk about, but the the 5am every day, that's, that's really kind of the consistency and the backbone of our relationship. Oh,

Robert Peterson 35:17
I love that. So one of the things my wife and I have been together for 30 years, and I tell people all the time, it's because we're committed to the journey. And there's no, there's no expectation outside of whatever we're doing. It's her and I against, you know, against the world against the world. Yeah. And. And I like that, you, you, you check in and make sure are we on the same page? And yes, and and it's, it's really important, because raising kids can separate you, right? Each have different ideas each year, parents did things differently. And if you don't communicate about those things, then you have these expectations. And many couples hold on to them. And they're, they're, you know, holding on to, you know, why I didn't like the way you did that. I didn't like the way you did that. I didn't like the way you did that. And they never tell their partner those things. And so I love that, that you're having this these communication and you're having these conversations about where are we going as a family, is what we're doing getting us where we want to go? Because you're gonna you're laying the groundwork for for a future relationship, not just with your wife, but but with your kids as they grow and become adults. And so super powerful. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 36:29
thank you. What you're saying just totally resonates with me. And it's kind of similar to your the entrepreneurs focus on the specific outcome in their business. And then they look up and they realize where am I and if you think about in a marriage, you have your two, two people both, you know, jumping from fire to fire to putting out this or that. And it could be so easy to just be so focused on the things that you're passing, just completely diverge. And so to have those moments of check in to bring, bring yourself back back together, I think it's just just so important.

Robert Peterson 36:56
Well, and, and the earlier obviously, the better, right, because if you're just doing this, it's yeah, it gets more and more complicated to bring this back. But if, if it's this little hiccup or slide here, hey, I can reach down and grab my wife and pull her back or she can reach down and pull me back. Right. Absolutely. And I think I think that's what our culture is allowing, right is, is this is what leads to, you know, temptations to ruin your marriage to suddenly embrace your relationship. This is what leads to temptations to put your business first because you're not getting your expectations met. And I think so many people just feel like, you know, this is normal. Yeah, yeah. And maybe in our culture, that it, this has become accepted as normal. But it doesn't have to be doesn't have to be like your business. Right, your business can take over. And the idea of bigger and better and more money becomes the driver instead of what I want. And yes, I think so many people are unintentionally living unintentionally, they're living by default. And they're allowing their relationships to be destroyed by the world around them, instead of being intentional about maintaining it. And so love what you're doing love that. Yes, with your wife and your kids and 100% I wish I wish it were the norm. I wish more people were doing what we're doing and, and, and really making relationship a priority. And, you know, my wife, my wife is gonna go with me on whatever journey I go on. And if I jump on a sinking ship, she's gonna jump on because she doesn't want me to go without her so

Unknown Speaker 38:29
and vice versa. I'm sure

Robert Peterson 38:31
she'll She'll also be on there going, you better plug that hole Powell.

Unknown Speaker 38:37
You gotten us into?

Robert Peterson 38:40
Well, it was Yeah. So she was willing to move to South America. And we've done an awful lot together. That's been pretty Wow. Not Most people don't, you know, do some of the things that we've already done. And, and, and the truth is, we can't wait to see what's next. Right? What's, what exciting things that that are that are coming around the corner. And that's what's so cool about the commitment to the journey. Yes. And no, no particular destination.

Unknown Speaker 39:05
I think that it is like an unfair advantage that you have in life and I have as well, that you have the right person during person who they're there with you along the way. And I think that you can't under underestimate how, how helpful you know, it is just to be able to have that support. It's the foundation

Robert Peterson 39:29
and I just want to clarify for people listening, that doesn't mean that there's only one right person it means that we become the right person by by commitment. And I think you know, Hollywood the the How I Met Your Mother story of you know that that one perfect person she's not going on. She's not the one. No, no, they all could be the one it's a commitment to make her the one crazy idea.

Unknown Speaker 39:57
Yes, so true. So true.

Robert Peterson 40:00
On the same with entrepreneurship, right? Maybe the business you're doing isn't perfect. Maybe, you know, I've started working recently with Dennis and Dennis have hundreds of 1000s of dollars invested in their education and hundreds of 1000s of dollars invested in a build out. And, and now they feel like they're handcuffed to a business that at this point in their life, they can't stand. Yes. Still, it still can be. Yeah. Super on their purpose and their meaning, and they can rediscover why they started down that path in the first place. But they get distracted, and they forget it. Right. And so it's the same message, what, what's behind the choice that you made? Yeah, ultimately, you wanted to help people when you started this, a

Unknown Speaker 40:42
lot of the professions you know, where there's a really high cost of entry, both from education time, build out all of that, like, I know that there can be a lot of burnout that comes as a result of that. And so it's really acceptable, and

Robert Peterson 40:55
then they feel they feel like they can't do something else. Yeah. And so the idea that I can't, I can't stop this, because it's a cash cow. Right? They are making money, but they're miserable. And so what are other options? Right coaching? And I mean, there's so many things that you can still do within the industry, that may not be, you know, directly, you know, inside someone's mouth, which wasn't, wouldn't never be a choice that I would make. But I was I had a different path, right? Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Ah, this is this is so good, Dan. So tell me about your podcast. Tell me about the impact being a podcasters. Had on Yeah, he was an entrepreneur and on your business?

Unknown Speaker 41:35
Yeah. So my podcast, the meaning movement podcasts were bound to like hit a hit the pause button for a period of a period of time. But you know, still folks listening would love for you to follow along there. It has been an exercise in commitment to talking about commitment there. I've been at it for seven or so eight years.

Robert Peterson 41:54
Relations. Wow. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 41:57
And it's got a lot long, a lot of that time at the kind of a slow and steady pace I recently ramped up, was doing two episodes a week for a while. And then at this moment like that, that was a lot. And it's time to kind of reevaluate what's next. And so I'm kind of gonna take some take some time to, to clear my head, step back a little bit and really decide what I want there. I think the two things other than commitment that is really done for me is one, it's given me an outlet to find my voice in different ways to feel, you know, I think so calm, some confident jumping on a call like this knowing that like, I don't know, you know, everything that Roberts doing, listen to a couple a couple of episodes, but I know that I can, I'm gonna have a productive conversation with Robert. And, you know, that translates to all of life jumping on sales calls, outreach calls, you know, meeting people at the grocery store, just whatever, like, I can talk to anybody about anything now, because I've been doing it for so long. And along with that, it's just exercising that muscle of creating something and shipping something which is, which is hard for someone who I have a strong perfectionistic drive inside me to have have a place to, you know, say I've committed to a publishing publication schedule, and I'm going to stick to that and get shipped the content out even if not, even if it's not perfect. And then the other major pieces, it's just been such a great tool to meet amazing people like you, and you know, other other hosts, other guests, just to build, build relationships. And I think that those are a few of the small ways that being a podcaster has, has really, really helped me. The other I guess I didn't even think of when you ask the question is, it's brought me business, it's brought me business opportunities, it's brought me my most recent software, which is video snap, it's a content repurposing tool for podcasters. And anyone making speech based content to create viral ready short form video out of, you know, podcast, episodes, audio, or video or talks or whatever it might be. And that's a scratch your own itch kind of product. So got to know, pod, the podcasting world as a podcaster myself, got to see where the paint my own pain points were, and then went about trying to find a solution make us create a solution for that. It's called Video snap. So it's just been it's an amazing journey. And like, I think many things in life podcasting for me has been a, it's taking me places that I never would have expected and also not taking me along the path that I expected, right? Like, I thought, you know, if I was defining success at this moment, in the same ways that I defined it when I started out I would have stopped a long time ago, but along the way, I find different reasons and new reasons to keep doing what I'm doing. Even though it's not, you know, necessarily not setting any records. I'm not on the top of any, you know, any podcast charts, but we've got a solid listenership and people that are giving value and it's giving me all these other tailwinds that I've just just shared about.

Robert Peterson 44:51
So good. Alright, so let's talk about this perfectionist because it's another area that that I deal with in entrepreneurs that the perfectionist is really holding back the risk taking necessary for entrepreneurial success? Yes, because it entrepreneurship, there really is this idea of you've got to ship it, and then fix it and correct it. Because fix it and correct it on your own thinking. You don't get the you don't get the feedback that you need for that for the right audience. Yes, yes.

Unknown Speaker 45:21
And you could be spending, the sooner you ship the better, especially if you have a perfectionistic drive. Like the sooner you ship the better and don't yet sure, don't don't ship, you know, total total garbage, but like, sell, sell or ship the minimum viable product as often as you can, especially when it comes to sales, especially when it comes to product. Because so often the thing that you're building, whether whether it's a course, a training program, a mastermind, a software, whatever you have in your mind, that the market that other people need, likely you don't have the right thing in your mind. And you don't know that until someone else is using it, and you're getting feedback from them to then change your own perception of what you should be, should be creating. So if you're spending all this time making it perfect, you're perfecting the wrong things. And you're the only way to find find out. You know what, what's the right thing to perfect is after other people are, are using it and interacting with it.

Robert Peterson 46:19
Yeah, so valuable. But so hard to push against for for many years. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 46:24
And I feel like you didn't even this is true of content and messaging. And, you know, I had a lot of resistance of even, like coming on a lot of podcasts until I really knew exactly who I'm trying to reach. I've gotten more clarity around it self funded entrepreneurs I'm trying to reach. But like, I feel like I probably have more work to do there to get even more specific on that demographic. But these conversations with people, folks like you, I'm working on my own messaging and perfecting it more and more as I go. But I'm only getting that by practicing. And by getting the reps in.

Robert Peterson 46:56
Yeah, the feedback loop is so important. And I think we get caught up in we don't? Well, I guess our culture is caught up in that failure idea versus experiment idea. Yes. Yes. Give you the idea that Edison failed, you know, 10,000 times to make the light bulb No, he experimented. 10,000 times. He never was failures. And it is an important reframe that so many people don't make are so caught up in failure is bad. But entrepreneurship, it's the best thing ever.

Unknown Speaker 47:27
Yes, totally. Totally agree. I'll sign I'll sign my name next to that one. It is it is it is essential. And yet it also can be really painful. And that's you know, and that's, that's the, that's the real risk, because that's really what perfectionism perfectionism is about, in the end, we strip away all of the all the other stuff, it's just about protecting yourself from something that's scary. It's really about fear. It's really about you know, receiving the fear that what you're making isn't good enough that you're going to hear it a critique that that hurts you that wounds you and and so the sooner you call it that the better but you know, it failure is an essential part of the process and so not only saying yes, I'm going I'm going to fail but like actually saying like let's let's ship this now so we can feel sooner and and figure it out. Let's get let's make the experiment let's let's treat it as an experiment.

Robert Peterson 48:23
Well, the crazy thing is getting past that we get nine out of 10 people that love it and are amazed and in our brain goes to that one that just Yes, right fit. It wasn't the right person. And we lose sleep at night because that one person said Oh, this sucks.

Unknown Speaker 48:40
Yes, exactly. I reviews on my podcast I'm like, oh look at all these fives Oh look there's a two star review and like that's the one I read right instead of all the other good stuff so

Robert Peterson 48:54
yeah, so typical that our brain will get caught in that I've had hundreds of people that love it and that one person who didn't who probably isn't your target audience anyway

Unknown Speaker 49:02
course. Of course people have to not like what you're doing. If people aren't disliking what you're doing then you're not you're not like speaking to a specific enough person.

Robert Peterson 49:12
And they're probably complaining about the box you put it in and not even the product itself so 100% All right, then we end every episode with our guests sharing their words of wisdom so our entrepreneurs have been listening for 45 minutes while you're leaving with Dan's words of wisdom what would you share

Unknown Speaker 49:31
my my words of wisdom are simply define your own version of success and give it put some metrics around it and that's going to help you build a business that you can love for the long haul which will be more successful in all ways. All the metrics than a business that that that sucks the life out of you. So define your own version of success. Well, I love

Robert Peterson 49:55
that you add create your own metrics got to have a dashboard you got to have a way to to measure no you Know that you're headed in the right direction. Dan, thank you so much for hanging out today and having a great conversation.

Unknown Speaker 50:06
Thank you so much. Yeah, I really appreciate being on the show.

Robert Peterson 50:12
Thank you for tuning into this episode brought to you by the power of intentional decisions that lead to massive action. Those aren't just buzzwords. They're qualities that can help you take control of your life and build a successful business. To support you on this journey, we're offering you our most popular survey to help you establish a baseline. Visit enjoy biz life.com to check it out and take the first steps towards changing your life and we often make things more complicated than they need to be losing sight of what's truly important. This tool will help you refocus on what matters most, so that you can start doing the things you've always wanted to do, like spending quality time with loved ones. And if you enjoyed this episode, please show us some love by liking, subscribing, or leaving a review, but most importantly, share it with someone who needs to hear it. In our next episode, Troy Erickson and Robert discuss bootstrapping a business from nothing to selling, how to start over in business and how to keep your business running. By focusing on what you really do well, email still works and will grow your business if you don't get distracted by shiny objects with bigger promises.