Jamie McKinney

shares with Robert and Noelle about being a woman in male dominated industries. She is working to help women develop the confidence to play bigger, to act like equals and get the outcomes they deserve. We need more voices at the table in leadership at all levels. Jamie wants to help women see the power of collaboration and step into their greatness to increase their impact.

A little bit about Jamie...

Jamie Dandar McKinney, MBA, is the best-selling author of Speak Up, Sister! The Professional Woman's Guide to Confidence and Success as well as a certified professional coach for businesswomen, a keynote speaker, and a virtual workshop leader.

She ignites action by sharing key lessons learned while working her way up in heavily male-dominated industries. Recognized by the Denver Business Journal as a Top Woman in Energy, Jamie jokes that her stilettos have steel toes. Jamie is fully immersed in her company mission to empower women to ditch doubts, speak up, and achieve the careers they deserve and desire.

Check out more of Jamie

Website: jamiemckinney.com/contact

Coaching: /coaching

LinkedIn: /jamie-dandar-mckinney

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Jamie McKinney
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Show Notes

Our guest today is Jamie McKinney.

Robert Peterson  1:06  

Jamie is the best selling author of SpeakUp sister the professional Woman's Guide to confidence and success as well as a certified professional coach for businesswoman, a keynote speaker and a virtual workshop leader.

Noelle Peterson  1:18  

She ignites action by sharing key lessons learned while working her way up. In a heavily male dominated industry recognized by the Denver Business Journal as a top woman in energy. Jamie jokes that her stilettos have steel toes. Jamie is fully immersed in her company mission to empower women to ditch doubts, speak up, and achieve the careers they deserve and desire. Jamie McKinney

Robert Peterson  1:42  

shares Robert Noel about being a woman in male dominated industries. She's working now to help women develop the confidence to play bigger to act like equals and get the outcomes they deserve. We need more voices at the table and leadership at all levels. Jamie wants to help women see the power of collaboration and step into their greatness to increase their impact. Jamie, thank you so much for joining us today. We are just so looking forward to this conversation. We love women empowering women. We love encouraging women. Any women that are out there, working with women and lifting women up, we are big supporters.

Jamie McKinney  2:23  

Amen. I am so thrilled to be here. I feel extra special that I get to speak with both of you today. You have such an impressive guest list on your podcast. I am very honored to be a part of this. Thank you for having me.

Robert Peterson  2:36  

Absolutely thank you for for joining us. We start each episode pretty much with a guest sharing their entrepreneurial journey. We'd love to hear your story. What's led you to what you're doing today?

Jamie McKinney  2:51  

Absolutely. I thought you might find it interesting that what I do today originally was not my idea at all, I'd spent all of my career in a heavily male dominated industry. I was in automotive and I was in oil and gas. If you know much about oil and gas, there's times that you're in it, there's times that you're out of it, you usually come back because it's a great industry. In one of my quote unquote off seasons, I was actually working for a financial technology company in the roofing industry. Yet another heavily male dominated which just happened by accident, it wasn't something that I was seeking. When I was in the roofing industry, a magazine called scale it SCA le approached me and they said, we've been watching you and we want to do a feature story about a strong woman and male dominated industry. We'd like that for that to be you, Jamie. I said, Oh, that's neat. I've never done anything like that before. When the article came out, it garnered more of a response than I had anticipated. I had a variety of women reach out to me and say, oh my gosh, I can't believe that guy said that to you or that you handled it that way. Or you know that you learned this lesson and when you said this, your words really resonated with me. That was it was sort of mind blowing to me that it had that impact. Then that's when I also started receiving requests to come speak to women's groups, not on behalf of the company or the service that I represented because I had been doing that throughout my whole career but no we want to know what you know Jamie about confidence and leadership. Then that snowballed into every time I spoke a handful of women would come up to me afterwards and say this was great. I want to learn more how do I buy your book which was not on my bucket list? It was not I should do that someday sort of thing. When the umpteenth person asks you it's alright, universe God whispers whatever you want to call them. I hear you screaming at me and that's where everything started to originate and it is continued to grow from there and It's such an honor and a privilege and a pleasure to do what I do. Similarly to what you do is that, all people have these powers and these gifts and these strengths within. Sometimes we go through things where they get overshadowed. This is a way to peel back those layers. Somebody goes, Oh, yeah, that's me. That's me in there. Now I get to shine brightly. Here we are, Robert and Noel, here we are.

Robert Peterson  5:27  

Absolutely. Obviously, there's some really incredible things in your journey. I love people that become accidental entrepreneurs, they get pulled into entrepreneurship by clients, by people wanting their help. You start solving a problem, you start sharing your story, and created your own demand. Without even realizing it. Obviously, it's kind of happened accidentally.

Jamie McKinney  5:58  

Yes, it did. I always have had the entrepreneurial spirit in me. When I was a kid, like popsicle businesses and stuff like that I was always doing and I did when I got my MBA in 2007. It did have an entrepreneurial focus, which I was mostly applying for the startup or growth companies that I was in. It was quite helpful when it reached the point of, hey, this is your product, to say, okay, cool. I know how to build a business. I know how to build a marketing plan, and just start doing it for yourself, although it's much different to do it for yourself than it is for others. At least to have the framework was very helpful.

Robert Peterson  6:38  

Absolutely. One of the biggest challenges for entrepreneurs is choosing a market and choosing a niche and choosing the language to use to talk about yourself. You started with all of that. You mentioned that your words were resonating with people. That in itself, is really powerful foundation for building your business.

Jamie McKinney  7:02  

100% my avatar is a version of me. I know her pretty well, the challenges that she's been through, I know the feelings of being in a room, and you're the only one of you, maybe you're also younger than everyone else. Maybe you haven't grown up in the industry.There's so many, which one of these things is not like the others, thoughts and feelings. When you know how to shift your mindset to be able to stand in your power, especially in that space. You can switch from feeling dis advantageous to advantageous of because I'm different, I add value instead of because I'm different, I stand out, and I'm insecure. No, no, no, it doesn't have to be that way at all. It does take some mindset work to get to the other side of it.

Robert Peterson  7:54  

Absolutely, That's a challenge for so many is the idea of being able to see your power as a power, seeing your difference, as a power rather than as a oh, I don't fit. What helped you make that leap?

Jamie McKinney  8:15  

There were a few things. One of them is realizing that even this, especially very early in my career, realizing that even though I wasn't the smartest one in the room, I didn't have the most experience. In the case of automotive, I hadn't grown up in the industry. I didn't have two stories of when I was in pigtails running around grandpa's shop. These guys looked at me like what is she doing here? Sometimes they verbalize variety of ways. Then also that I had a college degree, and that was seen as a threat in some cases, because when they figured out Oh, she was hired to be groomed to move up this young check could be our boss. I don't think so. You can imagine some of those shenanigans and things. What I figured out though, is that I didn't need to cater to everybody else's opinions. There were a few people in that room who recognized why I was there, and what I was bringing to the table and so I made concerted effort to develop a professional relationship with them as as mentors as allies and to ask what's important here, what do I need to know? Also learning that as long as I carried myself and lead with confidence, I didn't have to be the smartest I didn't have to be the most experienced. Yes, I had to know my stuff. I definitely had to know my stuff and in some cases twice as well as they did. The beautiful thing about that is it I got to take that with me. Nobody can take that away. I know sometimes that's looked at well, why do I have to do it better than they do? You can look at it that way or you can look at it as I get to know it twice as well as they do, I guarantee that's going to pay off in the future. It was some of those things that helped me shift that shift the mindset. When the people whose opinions mattered to me, the ones who were essentially making decisions about my promotions, that's when I knew I was making a difference in getting traction and the part about where I didn't fit in, or the people who didn't necessarily want me to be there, their opinions didn't matter as much. I could step into my power and do it in a way that was confident, not arrogant. There's definitely a difference there as well.

Noelle Peterson  10:32  

Can you expand a little on how you develop that confidence?

Jamie McKinney  10:35  

Yes, a lot of it had to do with my preparation, going into a meeting. I did not wing it. For example, I was invited into a team to do we were being trained as a train the trainer, to talk to insure or excuse me to talk to collision center owners, who are delivering continuing education credits to insurance agents, which is a mouthful, so we can just say train the trainer, I was being groomed, to train the trainer, and everyone else who was in this course with me, seasoned veterans in the industry, knew their stuff, there was a specific presentation, it was teaching people how to change a windshield, I had never done. I had to and we had to present and we had to practice in front of everyone. I took that material, and I practiced for days. We were brought to Pittsburgh for this meeting. I practiced in my hotel room at five in the morning, I got on the elliptical machine the day of this session, and I was practicing it, which someone said to me later today, I see you on the elliptical practicing your presentation, and I was yes, you absolutely did. A lot of the meetings, that's just one example. I did not go in just expecting it to go well, I had rehearsed my talking points, I had said them out loud, I had practiced my posture, I had practiced eye contact I had evaluated who was in the room, and who might stand in my way of success and who also might support it, and the one who would support it, there's a good chance that I had a conversation with them advanced to say what are your questions in the meeting? What do you want to hear and create some of that familiarity in those relationships. Competence gets rattled, in two primary circumstances. It's the unfamiliar and it's high stakes. Anything that you can do to familiarize the unfamiliar is the remedy to that. While I couldn't go in a time machine to be there. Then to rewind and go back, what I could do is practice what it was going to be like to be there. In doing so I was familiarizing it and talking to the people who were there. It wasn't the first time you know, that I was face to face with them, or the first time that we were talking about this. It's not so much that in regards to high stakes, you can change the stakes. The confidence that you bring into the situation influences the outcome. The stakes are so high, but the way you're presenting yourself has 100% impact on how things turn out on the other side. That helps you embrace it, rather than be fearful of it just reminds me of this professional athletes that envision what they're doing before they go into it. Yes, absolutely. The Superbowl was a few months ago, but Tom Brady, who's thrown I don't even know how many passes at this point. Go to all the titles and all these things. He's still on the sidelines, practicing his passes, visualizing, as mere mortals, non professional athletes, we can do the same things in our day jobs. It's incredibly helpful.

Robert Peterson  13:49  

Absolutely. Tom Brady's always my example for coaches, when he talks about, he's the greatest of all time, and he still has a quarterback coach. Oh, by the way, his quarterback coach has never won a Super Bowl. A coach doesn't necessarily have to have been where you want to be or where you want to go? A coach can absolutely, basically, I consider a coach is the eyeballs on the outside. I'm looking at your situation without emotion without feeling. I can say, I can ask questions, did that arm angle work, what was beneficial about the way you threw the ball? It's always interesting to to challenge some of the coaching stigmas out there of people want a coach that's an expert in their field or, and those are valuable too, they're more on a mentor role versus a coaching role who's coming alongside somebody to help them get where they want to go.

Jamie McKinney  14:53  

I completely agree. It's a coach is someone to hold up a compassionate mirror for you and ask him questions about things that you may not have thought of, because we all have blind spots. All coaches have coaches or while most good coaches have coaches because they see the value in it, that we all see things differently. It's so helpful to to hear what someone else says, or just see what someone else doesn't hear their opinion.

Robert Peterson  15:22  

It's a little hypocritical. A coach doesn't have a coach. 

Jamie McKinney  15:28  

I've heard too, and I'm sure, Robert, you've heard this as well, the good coaches are PR representatives have you heard this. Then PR doesn't stand for public relations, but it stands for permission and reminders. A good coach guides you to give yourself permission to do something that like somewhere in there, that you want to do it, or you need to do it, there's just some sort of of blockage. That coach helps you guide you guide you to giving yourself permission to do it. A reminder, likely is something you already know, does Tom Brady know to move his elbow a certain way or to make an adjustment? Absolutely, he knows that. When somebody points it out, it brings it to the surface, there's a lot of different things that he can do with his throwing arm.

Robert Peterson  16:17  

That kind of reminds me of the power of borrowed belief. How do you help your clients in that idea of believing them before they believe in themselves?

Jamie McKinney  16:32  

Of how I want to clarify your question of how I believe in them before they believe in themselves? Great question. It's funny, believing in someone's potential is what we do is coaches. This is also you could this is describing why my dating life didn't work out for so long. I didn't realize it until later that I was dating potential, not reality.

Robert Peterson  17:00  

That's so powerful, we have a living example that a good friend of ours, that I've been telling her over and over again, that you got to stop seeing the potential in this narcissist, and start looking at the reality of his character. What he's really doing is who he is not what you think he's capable of who that's so powerful.

Jamie McKinney  17:24  

That was a lesson I learned the hard way. It took a little while to to find my friends whose reality lined up, but who also is not a narcissist, and who is interested in exploring potential. That's a big thing when clients come to me and there's a series of questions in Klout qualifiers, that I asked to ensure that they are open to that, because the narcissist, for example, isn't going to be open to that. In that case, we're not going to be able to help each other. For someone who comes with humility, someone who comes with a willingness to learn someone who comes with the frustration, of there's this thing, and I see other people doing this, this isn't super complex, I don't understand why this is so hard, I think I can get there. I don't know how somebody that comes with that mindset is very coachable. I as the coach will say, yes, you can absolutely do this partially because it's a default in me that I believe in people. Also at this point, I can provide evidence of 1000s of women who have had some of those same thoughts going into it. Once they got out of their own way, which is something that they often say, Oh, I just had to get out of my own way. They get to the other side, they're excited, we're fist bumping, I'm getting the text message Jamie, I did it. Then there's the gifts going back and forth, jumping up and down celebrations, and everybody wins. Knowing what's on the other side, is so important to those beliefs and say, Yes, I know you can do this. If you can trust me just a little bit. We can experience some quick victories and then you can prove it to yourself. Then look out world. It's your momentum is going to be in forego.

Robert Peterson  19:15  

That's so good. You mentioned obviously, your business kind of started by demand. Once you made the decision to leap and do this for yourself, what has helped you to generate leads and create that network of connections?

Jamie McKinney  19:40  

Absolutely. Back up a little bit when all these ideas were coming in and then this some other shifts in the universe happened. I was able to dedicate three solid months to writing my book, which was great to have that focused time and The ability to do it. I had the initial manuscript, and I hired a business coach, even someone who has an MBA with an entrepreneurial focus, I hired a business coach. His name is Travis. He's amazing man. I said, Travis, I've got this book. As we all know, one book launch does not make for a retirement account. Also in a roundabout way, maybe but one one publication? Probably not. I said, there's a lot of value in here. How do I take this and disseminate it and turn it into a business. Part of the lead generation came from guidance of my coach, another part of it was really tapping into my network. That's something that I've always teaching is building your Mac team. Mac is an acronym that you will find inside the SpeakUp SR book, that stands for mentors, allies and champions. Success does not happen on an island, as we all know, and the more strategic you can be about surrounding yourself with the right players, the more you can leverage your network and bring leads bring opportunities to you simultaneously returning the favor. I rarely ask for something when I'm not prepared to reciprocate. Even if it's a link to an article, oh, by the way, I thought this might be interesting to you, or who you should meet is, so and so. The spirit of reciprocity has also brought me leads and then what is still in process, Robert, and, as entrepreneurs, there's never the finish line, there's a continued journey is also systemization of it, of the weaning process, and that itself is in process right now.

Robert Peterson  21:48  

We are definitely sympathetic, we are continuously changing and modifying our lead generation tracking and it really shifted in our business because I built this business, started in 2018 really shifted to working with entrepreneurs in 2019. It was all face to face all my meetings, all my group coaching was done in boardrooms, in around town, and spaces. Obviously, my last group launch was March 17, of 2020. Literally, I sat in a boardroom alone. In my groups, my existing clients transitioned so easily with zoom in with everything else. I had no lead generation digitally. There was nothing and so it's this last two years has been a big wake up call. I've learned some digital marketing lessons. Some that were expensive, and some that were that were silly. Yeah, digital marketing is an interesting space of full of con artists and in Dead promises, but because I've learned that it's kind of like I tell my clients about their, talk about accounting. One of my mentors, the IRS showed up with black SUVs in front of his house and business and took all of his computers and this Yeah, oh, and it turned out that his accountant was not paying the employee payroll taxes, he took all the money out of the account. It looked like he was paying those and filing the form, but the payment wasn't sent. Ultimately, that still falls on the owner of the business, you're still legally responsible for that, even though your accountant that you're paying is committing fraud. You've got to learn accounting, to the level that you need to be able to understand this person is doing the job that you're paying them to do. That can be really challenging. The same applies to digital marketing. If you're hiring somebody for for marketing, you've got to know just enough about Facebook ads, and just enough about YouTube and just enough about Google to know that what you're paying this person for is what you're getting. In return. It's gonna be really challenging.

Jamie McKinney  24:15  

Yeah, there is a difference between management and leadership. With leadership, you're primarily spending your time is doing what only you know how to do. Then the good old Eisenhower matrix of do delete delegate, what can I delegate or outsource for somebody who knows how to do it better than I do? Facebook ads are a great example. However, how can I read the information and have the proper transparency in order to ensure that there's nothing inappropriate or potentially illegal going on behind the scenes, the trust factor is huge.

Robert Peterson  24:53  

For me it was getting a list of names, but they weren't very good potential. to clients. I got a big email list out of my Facebook ads. In one definition, it's like, oh, look, I got you all these names. On the other hand, if they don't become clients, I can't afford to pay for Facebook ads.

Jamie McKinney  25:13  

Are they a list of names? Are they a list of, your avatar not? Exactly the new list of attorney would know what you know, like grocery store owners or something like maybe that's not your avatar. I could go out and get you a list of names tomorrow, Robert, but I'm not sure if the one that would be helpful to you?

Robert Peterson  25:35  

That's the other value of the niche, knowing your niche, knowing your avatar. It's one area where entrepreneurs, especially solopreneurs really struggled to narrow down and really personalize it. You mentioned that you were your avatar, or at least a part of your avatar. That's so powerful. Then your avatars in your own head, and you ought to be able to use the right language to communicate with them, which you were because in your speaking, people kept saying your words resonated with me, I just identify with all that you're saying. That's super powerful. I want to go back to the Mac team. I love that castle. Can we dig into these a little each of those three a little bit? The mentors, allies and champions?

Jamie McKinney  26:28  

Yes, absolutely. This is something that I came up with in my own career, because it was absolutely imperative for me to have these people in place. Now this is something that I teach inside my three pillars of leadership coaching program. As the lean in movement and McKinsey, they come up with a report every year women in the workforce. There are three things that are imperative to a woman's success working in the corporate world. One is creating visibility. Two is getting credit for your work. Then three, they say having a sponsor. I agree that having a sponsor is imperative where I disagree, however, is that one sponsor is high risk, because what happens when you've invested all your time in that one sponsor, and they go elsewhere, which happens on a somewhat regular basis, I would say to two clients that I've worked with, so to de risk that you build your Mac team instead. Mentors are people who are a couple levels above you in an organization. My advice is always shoot as high as you can aim as high as you can. I had somebody say to me, I can't go to the C suite, Jamie. I said, why not? What's the worst that can happen? I have had women do that in a $12 billion company and wound up with a C level mentor, imagine what is going to happen in her career. Here's the thing, if this person in the C suite doesn't respond to, do you have to be willing to ask and the other thing is, they may just respond and say, You know what, I don't have time, but may I recommend to you, someone else who you don't even know. Now you've got a warm lead, as far as a mentor, and as entrepreneurs, connection, a super powerful connection. Much stronger than just the cold, the cold outreach. Even as entrepreneurs, same thing, who is doing something similarly, in your discipline, who's ahead of you. He's already been there, done that. Reach out. The ones who are willing to help this is there's a huge and I love this about it, there's a huge pay it forward, on kind of unsaid unwritten mentality when it comes to that,, those of us who have, who have had success in our career and are very aware that we did not do this on an island. I've had some amazing mentors and continue to leverage that and then are more than willing to pay it forward. Somebody comes to you. I had dinner with a girlfriend on Friday, who was in the who's kind of where I am about three years ago, and she was taking notes at dinner, and I was more than happy to divulge what I had learned. Find that person because when you connect when the when you connect with the right person, and they respond and say yes, I'm so excited that you reached out, you just made a golden ticket connection, and it's up to you to make the connection. It's up to you to do that outreach. The worst that happens is either you don't hear from them, or they say no. Which is that really, that's not so bad. We can we can keep moving forward. The best thing is that they say yes, they say no, however, I can recommend you to this other person and it can really create an entire shift in your career or in your trajectory. It's always good to get in the spirit of having more than one it's always good to have a mixture of internal to your company external to your company, male and female because I'm sure this comes in No big surprise to anyone but men and women tend to see things differently. It's very helpful. No shocker. It's very helpful to have that other opinion that other viewpoint

Jamie McKinney  30:44  

I'm just gonna do because those are mentors.

Robert Peterson  30:46  

The male and female viewpoint is the reason why we need more women voices at the table, we need more women in the C suite, we need more women in the boardroom. We've got all of these companies and all of these, including entrepreneurial enterprises that are happening. Women are underrepresented, obviously minorities are underrepresented. We need those voices at the table simply for the perspective simply for the viewpoint, that they see things differently. That doesn't mean they see it wrong. That means they see it in a way that that others don't. When we bring both those perspectives together, isn't that more powerful?

Jamie McKinney  31:30  

100% 1 I love the parable of the three blind men who come across the elephant in the jungle. You familiar with this one? Nope, you're gonna have to share it. The three blind men are in the jungle, and there's an elephant, and one of the men encounters the elephant's trunk. He says, wow, what is the is it a snake? Is it a tree? I don't know what this is. This is a very distinct object. The other one encounters the elephant's ears. He's saying, Oh, I'm touching. It's like a big leaf, it's something totally different. Then the third one is feeling the elephant's foot, the toenails, and there's variety to it. They're all touching the same object, but they're viewing it, they're experiencing it from a completely different perspective. That's such a beautiful metaphor for how we are as humans, each of our life experience even siblings, even twins, even people who have grown up in very similar environments, our filters, our perspectives are different. When we can have those conversations from a place that's collaborative, not contentious, but collaborative, and open to seeing differences, hearing differences, again, on the on the side of humility. Gosh, it's amazing how eye opening that can be, and how much bigger and better of a solution we can reach. The myopic thinking of hey, let's I know, here's an idea, let's get everybody that grown up pretty similarly, you know, is the same race, age, gender, culture, all these things? Let's see how wonderful the solution we can get? You can have really intelligent people, but I have to think that the solution is going to be more myopic than if there were more diversity in the group.

Robert Peterson  33:20  

The challenge has just been habit. Men started in the workforce and lead workforce. Of course, when they're in a position of leadership, they don't want their leadership threatened. I hate to think that the 80% of men that are representing leadership are all opposed to women being there, it's just the habit of the way the workforce developed. Of course, now they protect their seats, and some of those kinds of things that, and I'm sure you've experienced in oil and gas and the automotive industry. There definitely needs to be an openness to the conversation and a willingness to, but at these levels, it's about power and control. Whenever we're talking about power and control, we're gonna put up defenses and protect our positions a little differently than if we're open to the possibilities of collaboration.

Jamie McKinney  34:22  

This is where there's such a great opportunity, because those leaders who are centered in their competence, not in their insecurity. What I mean by that is that they know their strengths. They know what they're good at doing. They know what they can do that nobody else can do. Then they're also surrounding themselves with people that it's like, hey, account, I'll just use your example Robert accounting. Not totally my jam, however, I appreciate its value, and I need to know just enough about it. I'm not your expert. I'm your expert in this. Not that. That's a sign of confidence. Bring somebody to the table that knows something you don't know because when you can do that from from you're standing in your power, that's a much greater position to be in, then try instead trying to say no, I've got this all figured out. I want us around people who can't with you who won't see through me, well don't see that that's a mindset shift. Is it seeing through you? Or is it complimenting your efforts, and being honest and forthright about that, and using that as an opportunity to be the strongest at your strength? Now, you don't have competition?

Robert Peterson  35:26  

We've all seen leaders that surround themselves with Yes, men.

Jamie McKinney  35:30  

That's going to feed your ego. Is it going to feed your bottom line at the end of the day? Maybe maybe not. There's different leadership styles. I don't recommend that one. 

Robert Peterson  35:43  

I don't I'm not saying I recommend it. We've just all been witnesses to it.

Jamie McKinney  35:48  


Robert Peterson  35:52  

We still got to finish. Now see, that was mentors. Today, you got to talk about the allies in the champions. Yes,

Jamie McKinney  35:59  

allies. If you are familiar with the game of chess, or maybe you watched the Queen's gambit on Netflix over the pandemic, yes, the pawns are your first row of the pieces. Then the back row has seemingly stronger. I don't even know it well enough to say are the characters pieces. The background has the stronger pieces, the queen, the King, the bishop, the rook, they can make big moves. We seem to equate them with having the most power. Those pawns. However, even though they can only move one little square at a time, a proper move, a strategic move by a pawn can block you from an opponent, and can simultaneously open up an opportunity. Think about your allies in the same way. They're not as high level as mentors, they may not have the big title, but your allies are at a similar level to you either on the org chart or where you are in your business. Small things. Again, like when you're preparing for a meeting, if you want to build and boost your confidence going into a meeting or presentation, if you have a known ally, in your meeting, how helpful Do you think that is? If you know there's somebody in there that like know, let's say you're in one of my presentations, and there's also a gentleman in the room that has historically challenged me has just brought up questions at the wrong time or, has been difficult. We've all had that person. I've got my strategy of how to manage, but if I also know that you are in there as my ally, and when he says something, and you can speak up and say, Jim, did you mean that? Or did you mean this? Jamie's point was that, you can also ask the question at the strategic time, or, an ally has your back. You can think about your ally as a doubles partner, because you simultaneously have your allies back. In that same meeting, no, maybe you were to share your opinion. Someone else would just say, ah, what are you talking about, then? That's my role to say no, wow, that was such a great point. What if I understand you properly, you said this. We have each other's back? It's subtle. It doesn't necessarily seem planned. It's one little move that can be extremely helpful. It's other things in meetings like someone pipes up when you've been talked over? Says, I don't think everybody heard Noel's point. That was really smart. Will you say that, again? It's someone who has your back outside of meetings. It's also someone that after you've you've presented or you've had a role in a meeting, that outside of it can share feedback with you in a safe, comfortable space and say, hey, you know what, this part, you crushed it, nailed it. Do it exactly that same way next time. This part, I don't know, your confidence dropped? What happened there? How can we strengthen you next time. An ally is that person, it's a very reciprocal relationship that you have, where you're helping each other, you're lifting each other up, you are a team, and that's helpful and tell you what a strong ally, especially when that's known, that is also helping to impact and increase your efficacy. Yeah, they matter what role that you're in. 

Jamie McKinney  39:13  

can support you when you're not in the room.

Jamie McKinney  39:15  

100% that's your ally. Then your champion you can think about in a few different ways a champion also will help you outside of the room. A champion is someone who is usually higher up or has influence who has clout when they say something, people listen, generally speaking, Oprah Brendon Burchard, some of those people when they say things, at this point, they're so well respected, they could probably say something false, and everyone would still believe it or grow along with it. Your champions have that same type of influence. This is all about using your powers for good, not evil, of course, and you can in some ways, think about it Your mentors as a pipeline to your champions, if at some point your your relationship with your mentor will run its course, whatever skill or whatever you were developing with your mentor, you'll fall out of that meeting on a regular basis. Now that that person has had the opportunity to, they've seen you on your good days, they've seen you on your bad days, they're still going to advocate for you, and champion for you. One of the best examples I have of this is one of the women who went through my three pillars programs. Call me one day, and she said, You're not gonna believe this. I was like, Ooh, Try me. I love it when conversations start out that way. She said, Jamie, I had not one, but two promotional opportunities handed to me today, on the same day, she had not sought out either one. As we unpacked it a little bit more. I said, who handed you these opportunities. It occurred to her, both of these people had been her mentors at some point earlier in her career. Not so formally, her mentor, not meeting with her on a regular basis. It has potentially been a few months that have gone by, since they've even come in contact. These positions came available. They were at a place in the org chart where they could see them and said, who would be the perfect candidate for this? You don't know it was on the same day, and was handed to her. She was like, so now I need your help in deciding which route to go.

Noelle Peterson  41:27  

You never know who's watching, just like your kids are above us. I've similar my job, noticing that, realizing that people above me saw what was going on. It is encouraging and inspirational. When you notice that 100% With all the success you've had what is currently your biggest challenge,

Jamie McKinney  41:47  

The biggest challenge, kind of going back to what I was saying at the beginning about lead generation, and I'm just working on the automate, automate, automate, automating and systemization of the lead generation in the scaling side of things. I've been very blessed to hit the capacity for what one person can do. Now I'm working on infrastructure and systems, so that this message can be delivered to more people. There's time management there. There's evaluation of different resources. As entrepreneurs, there's always shiny objects. Here's the one system that will turn your program into seven figures overnight. Some of those, I don't believe in overnight, but some of those are, there's a lot that are successful. Like you said, Robert, there's a lot of fraud out there. There are some that are successful. The challenge right now is evaluating to choose what's right for my brand, my business. My budget.

Robert Peterson  42:49  

Absolutely. On that note, let's talk about your book SpeakUp, Sr, and what's been the impact? What's been me, obviously, it launched your business. Let's talk about how it's helped and what it's allowed you to do.

Jamie McKinney  43:10  

It has, it's not so much what it's allowed me to do. But what is allowed others to do. I have never written a book, like I said, that was not on my bucket list. I've got goosebumps right now, I have been blown away at the feedback that I have received. Early on, I was joking around that there's some people who've made more money off of my book than I have, because they implemented what they learned, got a promotion that came with a five figure increase in compensation. From the spirit of abundance that absolutely thrills me. There's other pieces of just you, me, I was laughing out loud and relating. There was a woman in her 60s who had lost her husband, she read the book, and she said, You know what, I decided to take a road trip on my own. I've never done that before, all the way down to I was terrified to give presentations. I read that last chapter in your book, I prepared just like you said. Oh my gosh, not only did it go really well, but the CEO came up to me afterwards and said, Good job. There's so many examples and stories of the ways that the readers of the book have implemented the information that's in there, and that makes me smile ear to ear. What more could you want from something like that? It's very interesting. Words on paper translate into action. That's how you build confidence. Confidence is a belief that you can encourage is the action that you take to prove it to yourself. This book is very action oriented. I loathe busy work and I loathe wasting time. This book is not designed for that at all. At the end of each chapter, there are key takeaways. There are actions for impact. Some people might call it homework, I call it actions for impact because I don't think we really look forward to homework but actions are input are motivating. Then there's a spot to write, I commit to this. Again, it's proving it to yourself. I believe in you, but you got to believe in you. Take this one little action, I promise, you'll prove it to yourself. Then you'll go, Oh, now I get to do this bigger thing.

Robert Peterson  45:17  

That's fantastic blood testimonies that say more women have made more money with my book than I have.

Jamie McKinney  45:25  

I say game on. The book is, it's been recognized, it's on eight bestseller lists. I'm going to the Women's Summit in Ohio in a couple of weeks. It was selected as a featured book at this summit. It's still just the beginning for what the book is done.

Robert Peterson  45:45  

That's so so good. How has gratitude served you and your personal growth journey? How do you encourage others to practice?

Jamie McKinney  45:56  

Oh, huge. When I was in second grade, I made my first communion. That was when my mom said, you are going to write thank you notes to everyone who gave you a gift for your first communion. Remember, when you use those pencils, the diameter is bigger. Your fingers were little, I remember writing thank you notes with that with the bigger pencil. That is a wonderful habit that my mom instilled in me, which I still have to this day. We obviously didn't have email back then. The art is slightly lost. Gratitude, thank yous are so important. That is the way that you reciprocate what the universe has given you. It's not that you do it to keep it going, you just do it to be a good person. Then the byproduct of that, I believe, is that it continues to go. Something that I learned in 2015, I was at a two week seminar about empowered thinking and higher level learning. One of the things that they shared with us a practice to put in place was every night before you go to bed to write down seven things, you're thankful for that day. I will confess that I don't necessarily write it down. I do make a point to think about it and reflect on what are seven things and this is now seven years later. I'm still doing this. It's such a great way to end your day, and to call out the things that you're thankful for. It's easy for a day to go by and to wake up the next morning and just repeat without reflecting but that reflection on Gosh, I'm thankful this happened. I'm thankful that happened. In some cases, I'm thankful I made that mistake, because I learned from it. It's just a habit, like anything else. Gratitude is abundance, and it's impossible to have a fearful mind, it's impossible to have a negative mind when you're in the space of gratitude. It's conditioning mindset every day. You two are gonna be on my list tonight. 

Robert Peterson  48:03  

Obviously, you're speaking, you're teaching and helping people design a life that they love. What? How does that work? How do you help somebody picture this abundant life?

Jamie McKinney  48:16  

Yes. A big part of it is calling the shot. What is it that makes you happy? We go through a goal setting exercise in the coaching program. I always make the joke that two guaranteed ways to make my audience roll their eyes and groan is to say, either, now we're going to roleplay or now we're going to set goals. In this case, however, I encourage the ladies they stick with me on this trust because I promise this will be goal setting in a way you haven't done before. I know Robert No. You have something similar that it's heart centered, goal setting, not head centered. This is similar. It's backing out of what you think you should do, or what you've been told. It's peeling back some of those layers. It's saying, if we were to fast forward, six months from now, five years from now, what are you doing, and you got to step out of your perfectionist brain just for a little bit, you go back if you want, but step step out of that for a second. We're not going to think about the how, just the what, without any parameters, picture yourself in a hot air balloon and you just dropped all the sandbags, and now you're floating. What does that look like? Once somebody can get in that space and name that then we reverse engineer, which often appeals to my ladies because they work in the technical industry. If I said we're going to reverse engineer, everybody's on board with this. Then we reverse engineer how to get there. What often happens is that something that was originally thought of as a five year goal becomes like a five month goal, or the timeline gets very shortened when you can gain clarity. Those are some of the secret sauce inside the goal setting. Does your universe love clarity? Show does. It's from a neuroscience perspective that's your reticular activation system at work. Your brain starts to gather evidence to prove what you've told it you want it to do?

Robert Peterson  50:16  

That's why clarity in your language clarity in your niche clarity and in your messaging clarity and your goals all start to align and really great things start to happen.

Jamie McKinney  50:26  

Yes, very true, which doesn't mean there won't be hiccups, afraid or unexpected, unexpected interruptions. However, when you can see in that mind space, the way I like to describe it is when you set a goal, it's not getting in a car and driving in a straight line. It is putting yourself in the captain's chair of a sailboat. A sailboat does not go in a straight line, it tracks in a zigzag formation from the shoreline to your destination. When you think about your goal setting in that same way, hey, there's going to be unexpected bursts of wind and some things coming at you. Good news, because you're sitting in the captain's chair, now you get to adjust your sails so that you can navigate with the wind, not against it and still work towards your goal.

Robert Peterson  51:13  

Absolutely, very few goals are a straight line. The biggest thing that happens is that mindset shift, when you do end up against the wind, it's for a shorter period of time. It's not not Oh, no, I'm stuck against the wind, and there's no chance and I quit. No, no, it's okay, I'm stuck against the window. Or wait, I know what to do. She told me

Jamie McKinney  51:37  

what to do. Just those sales? It's taking a step back and looking at it from the objective perspective of what can I control here? What can I not? That's a big way that we peel back some of the self limiting beliefs. Self limiting beliefs are often centered on the parts that you can't control, which is a losing battle. Whereas when you can shift your perspective to what you can control. Now you can do something about it and back to the action and competence are highly correlated. We'll take that action doesn't have to be huge. Like Martin Luther King said, I don't need to see the whole staircase just the next step or to take that next step. Now you're back on track. You just did your sales, you're still moving along.

Jamie McKinney  52:24  

So powerful. Jamie, what inspires you?

Jamie McKinney  52:30  

So many things. Brakes inspire me. It's amazing how when I'm on my road bike, or a run, the ideas come flooding in and I'm trying to dictate messages into my phone of breaks inspire me. The success stories of my clients inspire me seeing someone who thought she couldn't. Then realizing that she could, I have chills all over my body right now just thinking about it, let alone when I hear about it. If I had to narrow it down to two things, I would say people who have experienced success who have stepped into their power, who have believed in themselves and giving my brain room, those are two things that inspire me.

Robert Peterson  53:20  

It's so good. We're gonna take a risk. This is typically the hardest question. What was your most memorable date?

Jamie McKinney  53:34  

I thought that might be coming. It was with the one who wound up being the one not the one who was selling himself short on the potential. I met my now husband Memorial Day weekend of 2013. A few weeks later, it was the summer solstice, it's one of my favorite nights of the year. We live here in Denver, Colorado in the Rocky Mountains and we drove to a spot I think we were in Genesee, basically as high as we could get. We could see the sunset set as late as it does, behind the mountains and that was definitely a Memorable Date and one that we have made a tradition and we've now do every year we sometimes go to the same spot sometimes we find a new one. This past year we set up my husband's truck and had the dog and had a little barbecue and a few beverages and watched the sunset and it's been a really special and nice tradition in our relationship.

Robert Peterson  54:32  

Nice used to be able to park on Lookout Mountain it's not doesn't have as many

Jamie McKinney  54:37  

That's why we were in a car. We went to the Buffalo Bills gravesite parking lot. It's highly recommended.

Robert Peterson  54:44  

Yeah, we had one up the street from us. We had one of our first dates. Look out mountain.

Jamie McKinney  54:50  

Maybe we'll have to meet up on summer solstice next year

Robert Peterson  54:53  

Purs 30 years ago though.

Jamie McKinney  54:57  

So even better, I love

Robert Peterson  54:59  

ya Obviously, there's not very many cities that have a point above the city where you can see the entire city. We are so blessed by that and of course, blessed by the mountains and the opportunities that we have to explore nature. That's definitely one of our joys is to get out and see trees and grass and green and rocks and rivers and all those fun things. 

Jamie McKinney  55:28  

for you the fresh air.

Noelle Peterson  55:31  

Let's go back to thinking about work and just your life. How has routines helped you? Assuming you have some

Jamie McKinney  55:41  

routine? Discipline is what I would call routine. I have a year's worth of words for my business every year. Last year, that word was focused on building a business is no small task. The discipline to say no to a variety of things, so that you can keep your eye on the prize and say yes to what you want is incredibly important. It's so easy for counters to get layered. Routine has been incredibly important in reserving time and strategic space to build the business. The absence of that would be disastrous, and probably a big waste of time. Also, knowing that everything doesn't have to be routine, leave, like I said, the inspiration for me comes in those breaks and the creative space in my brain. It's a combination of routine, plus more open ended time.

Robert Peterson  56:47  

How important is playing fun.

Jamie McKinney  56:52  

It's highly important. When I moved here from Ohio, I remember two weeks into it, I called my mom and I was like, wow, this is an outdoor playground for big kids. There's so much to do outside and you start to accumulate all the toys, which are far more expensive here than they were in Iowa. They're seasonal. It's super important. The endorphins are huge. Neurochemistry, the fresh air, getting your body moving helps your mind stay in a healthy space, it's very important.

Noelle Peterson  57:29  

We talked about the creativity coming when you're out on your bike, and it's just, you gotta have to find that place. We're all different. We all need that time to get away from our normal to let our brains absorb and give out that next

Jamie McKinney  57:44  

big idea.The thing that's fun about physical accomplishments. Especially if your physical activity has been reduced for a while, that helps prove to yourself what you can do, when you do something hard. It's great. The mountain we have such a great opportunity, just walking up a mountain can be, let alone hiking or running or riding your bike, have it but it's all interrelated. Body, mind, soul.

Noelle Peterson  58:16  

There's so many ways to move areas and places to get out in this wonderful city and state. Yes. What is the big dream?

Jamie McKinney  58:24  

The big dream is that all voices in my niche are women and girls, but all voices are heard when you have something to say, especially if you can feel it in your chest, in your stomach, that it comes out of your voice. When I was writing my book, I was reflecting one day on something that literally took my breath away. Throughout history, if all women and girls had the confidence to have been in a space where they felt safe enough to share the idea that they had, if throughout history that had happened every time just imagine how different our world would be today. Does that sound like chills? My dream is that all the voices are heard. All the voices are heard that there's no fear when you're speaking up, but that doesn't prevent you from doing it.

Robert Peterson  59:21  

Oh, that's so good. Jamie, thank you so much. One last question. You've been sitting with these entrepreneurs listening for an hour, you would leave them with Jamie's words of wisdom what would you share?

Jamie McKinney  59:32  

Yes. Be brave, be bold, and be you and whether that's introverted you, whether that's extroverted, you just authentic you whatever you need to do to surround yourself with the right people do the physical exercises, the mental exercises, hire a coach. Be brave, be bold, be you, the world needs to hear your ideas and your vision and your passion. Don't hold it in. Be brave. Be bold, be you.

Noelle Peterson  59:58  

Thank you so much, Jamie. It's been a pleasure listening to your story and learning from you.

Jamie McKinney  1:00:03  

Likewise. It's such a pleasure to be with the two of you, your energy is contagious and I am honored to have been in your sphere here today.