Jess Bonasso

and Robert have a great conversation about how women have too long allowed their identity as nurturers to subservient themselves. THey need to set boundaries, they need to take care of themselves and they need to shift from co-dependent to interdependent to create the collaborative relationships we were designed for. She wants to help women rise up and be awakened to their possibilities.

A little bit about Jess...

Jess Bonasso, also known as The Self Care Goddess, is a Brave Life Catalyst & Self-Rescue Coach, Author & Keynote Speaker who has been teaching worn out working wonder women how to master the art of self-rescue since 2007.

After unraveling the burnout, breakdown & proverbial midlife crisis that stemmed from her corporate-climbing 20’s & business-building 30’s, Jess created the Brave-Hearted Way, a self-rescue compass & road map to courage, authenticity & wholeness that teaches you how to live, love, lead & work in a smarter way that leads to wholeness & wealth without sacrificing your happiness or health.

Jess is also a published co-author of Speaking Your Truth: Courageous Stories from Inspiring Women (Vol.2) & has been an accredited practitioner since 2007 of The Journey Method®, a highly effective form of cellular trauma release therapy that can unravel at a cellular level the core fears, limiting beliefs & unhealthy behaviors that block your wholeness & greatness.

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Jess Bonasso
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Show Notes

Robert Peterson  0:00  

Our guest today is Jess Bonasso. Jess, also known as the self care Goddess is a brave life catalyst and self rescue coach, author and keynote speaker who's been teaching worn out working Wonder Woman how to master the art of self rescue since 2007. After unraveling the burnout, breakdown and proverbial midlife crisis that stemmed from her corporate climbing 20s and business building 30s just created the brave hearted way, a self rescue compass and roadmap to courage, authenticity, wholeness that teaches you how to live, love, lead and work in a smarter way that leads to wholeness and wealth without sacrificing your happiness or health. Jess Bonasso and Robert have a great conversation about how women have too long a lot of their identity as nurturers to subservient themselves. They need to set boundaries, they need to take care of themselves. They need to shift from codependent to interdependent to create the collaborative relationships we were designed for. She wants to help women rise up and be awakened to their possibilities. Jess, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm excited to have this conversation.

Jess Bonasso  2:12  

Me too. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Robert Peterson  2:15  

Absolutely. Well, first, I want to thank our mutual friend Aspen for introducing us. And I'm just very grateful for her and the episode that she was on. And then also, of course, for our listeners who are joining us and just look forward to sharing a great story.

Jess Bonasso  2:32  

Yeah, this will be fun.

Robert Peterson  2:35  

All right. So typically, we start each episode just with your own entrepreneurial journey and what got you to where you are today.

Jess Bonasso  2:43  

Yeah, well, it's, I mean, we all have a story, right? Um, I would say mine sort of came to a head and you know, as far as being an entrepreneur, the reason why I ended up becoming an entrepreneur is because when I was in my early 20s, or in my 20s and early 30s, I was a corporate climbing, go getter, hard achiever, hardworking, hardworking, Wonder Woman, so to speak, I was doing everything I was doing, you know, working my way up the corporate ladder, and then also going to school part time and full time throughout a lot of that time and, and I overdid it. I overextended myself, and I didn't know that I was overextending myself, of course, until my physical health, my mental health and my emotional health took a nosedive. So it was in my early 30s, where I started to experience what I would classify as an early onset midlife crisis. I was strangely unhappy, I was dealing with depression and anxiety, I'd been dealing with anger management issues, and had been on some medication and working with a therapist for about seven years at that point, without getting a lot of results. I was also dealing with chronic back pain that was so bad, I was considering surgery. And I was really afraid and fearful about that, and having to take that step. And so you know, for lack of a better word, I was kind of a red hot, sloppy mess. And I think one of the things that brought it all to a head is I had a friendship that started to disintegrate without me really even knowing about it because she was afraid to have the conversation with me and she kind of ghosted me, she kind of stopped just hanging out with me. And when I found out that the reason was because I had become so toxic and negative. And hard to be around, I realized, oh my gosh, all this stuff that I had been dealing with, I thought was just my own little personal hell. And I didn't realize the ripple effect it was having on my relationships. So that was sort of that pivotal moment where I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to turn this around. I had no idea what that was going to look like. But I remember sitting on the floor, crying my eyes out and telling my husband at the time who I was then married to that I was going to turn this around no matter what. So that was sort of like that pivotal moment of realization and personal responsibility that came into the picture. And that was in October, it was actually October 5 of 2005. I remember the date. Exactly. That's how pivotal of the moment it was. And no joke about three weeks later, one of the bread crumbs that was going to be a huge part of my healing journey, and ultimately became something that I now offer to my clients today, that bread crumb came into the picture. And I ended up working with a massage therapist, one day, towards the end of that October, who I'd never worked with before, and she happened to be a little bit intuitive, and was doing some energy work on me and said, You know, I really feel like this might have more to do like the stuff going on with your back. And the fact that your energy is off has a lot to do with your mom. And I was like, What?

Jess Bonasso  5:58  

What are you talking about? So she explained that there was an energetic block, it had something to do with an emotional block around my mom. And I thought, Well, my mom and I get along fine. I'm not upset with my mom. And then at the end of the session, she said, I really want to encourage you to pick up a copy of a book called The Journey by Brandon bass. And so I was like, Alright, fine, I'll do that. So I picked up this copy of the book, read the book, and read Brandon's story about how she had healed herself of a tumor. That was the size of a small basketball in her uterus. And her story was about some old childhood trauma that she'd been through with her mom, it was verbal abuse. And when she healed that trauma, her tumor disappeared. And I was like, whoa, wow, what about this physical stuff I'm dealing with, has to do with my childhood, like that was mind blowing. This was my first experience of mind-body connection. So, that was sort of like the starting point. And, you know, long story short, I decided to try out the journey, it completely changed everything. For me, my back pain had improved 75%, within just a three week period, I got off medication I'd been on for the last seven years within that three week period. And at that point, I realized I also didn't want to be in my corporate job anymore. And I was really doing some brainstorming and trying to figure out what was going to be next. And that's when I realized that, you know, if I'm going to embrace this idea of really taking personal responsibility for my life and my self care, and might as well go start my own business, and teach others how to do this. So I can really hold myself accountable to it and start practicing being the change I wish to see in the world. And that's where I started. So that was in 2007. I started my business may of 2007. And I've been doing that, ever since over 16 years.

Robert Peterson  7:47  

Wow, that's fantastic. So there's, there's obviously a ton of good stuff in here. Yeah, so I love so one of the things that obviously I love to to delve into is what I call crossing the line of courage. And really, that's what happened to you on October 5 2007, if you decided that you would no longer be a victim. You're going to rewrite your story. I don't do it necessarily. From the energetic side. Although I share up and talk a lot about the energy side, we talk about the story right in the power of story, that story you tell yourself about past events. So let's dig into a little bit of how you transformed that story over this journey.

Jess Bonasso  8:44  

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I mean, you know, I was dealing with severe burnout. And I didn't really get that that was what was going on and what had happened. The reason I was dealing with burnout to such a strong degree was because I had this mindset as a child. You know, my parents divorced when I was two. And I went to live with my dad. And it was tough. There were times where we didn't have running water or electricity. And I got made fun of at school because of that. So I had some tough traumatic times in my childhood. And it was interesting, because, you know, I was saying earlier that I didn't really think that I had any issues with my mom. But as I'm doing my healing work, I realized I had some abandonment issues around that right she didn't take me versus my dad taking me but because of that childhood trauma, that feeling of abandonment at the age of two when they divorced and then some of the trauma and difficulties I had in my early childhood I unconsciously develop this belief system that in order for me to be happy and successful, I was going to have to go out and and make as much money as I could. Because being poor shocked right. So in the corporate world what happened is I even went through and got my undergrad and my graduate degree while I was climbing the corporate ladder. After I was very successful in the corporate world, but the belief system that was driving that was the I've got to be, in order to be successful, I've got to be making money. And I've got to make as much money as possible. So I can prove to myself in the world that I'm valuable, and I'm worthy, and you know, all that nonsense. So that's where my over giving and my overachieving tendencies came from, I was definitely an achiever type. But underneath all of that achiever type, you know, I looked like I had all my, all of my ducks in a row and all of my stuff together. But really, in reality, I had a lot of insecurity and a lot of self doubt, because I wasn't raised in an environment where I, where I felt really strongly competent and courageous. So I hadn't yet stepped into being very grounded in who I was. And because of that experience, going into burnout and having all the insecurities and the head trash, if you will, and the belief system that led me into the unhealthy habits and patterns and behaviors that cause me to burnout, I have a lot of like, really real experience around this idea of working women and you know, recovering from burnout, how to overcome burnout and heal at a cellular level, what's holding you back, and causing you to overwork and overextend yourself. So that experience is ultimately, as an entrepreneur, it's like that pain became my purpose. It's the thing that I was like, again, if I wanted to heal this, I knew that I had to number one, heal it within myself first. And there was something calling me to help other women heal it within them as well. And in the beginning, I wasn't working with just women, I was working with men and women. But over the last 16 years, I've seen how many women suffer from burnout compared to men and I. It just became part of my life's mission and my purpose to, to really start to teach from that experience. And so it's like this, I was able to transmute or transform that energy, like you said earlier in being the victim, to my childhood experiences, and the head trash and the behaviors that came with that, to, to actually taking all that healing all of it. And then using all of that for good in the world and actually teaching other women how to do the same thing. So I just feel really blessed to be in this position. And it's one of the reasons why I mean, being an entrepreneur is one of the hardest things I've ever done in my entire life, even harder, probably than what I was going through in my 20s. But because it's such a passion and purpose based vision for my life, and I'm so passionate about it. It's the thing that motivates me and keeps me going. And there have been times over the last 16 years where I wanted to give up, for sure, for sure. And I've had some difficult times throughout those 16 years. But that's that vision for greatness, you know, really embracing my purpose and contribution and wanting to help other women was the thing that kept me going. And today I feel super blessed to be doing what I'm doing. And like you said, I have a lot of personal real world experience that I can really speak from a place of wisdom about this, instead of just this intellectual knowledge about how to overcome and get rid of burnout.

Robert Peterson  13:13  

Like some of the best entrepreneurs and best coaches are people that have solved the problem for themselves and bring that solution to the marketplace. And so that's super powerful, just in its own experience. But in aligning that with a vision, it is really powerful. So let's dig into that vision and why that vision is able to drive you through bigger challenges than what you even overcame to just be a survivor.

Jess Bonasso  13:42  

Yeah. Well, it's interesting, because, you know, when I first started my business, I was really just coaching. And I wasn't completely clear about how everything was gonna come together. So you know, I went through and I did my coach training program, and I had gotten so much value out of the journey work that I did, which is the healing modality that helped me heal my life, you know, from the Journey method book that I read about. So I became a journey accredited journey practitioner. And I wasn't really planning to use the journey work with my coaching practice. But as I started to work with people, they too had unhealthy habits, behaviors, and limiting beliefs and emotions and physical pain, just like some of the things I was dealing with. And the Journey method is such a great tool for navigating through all of those ego patterns. And, you know, all of this self sabotage that we basically, you know, take ourselves through because we don't know any better. And so it just sort of organically started coming together. So I had this coaching component that I was doing with my clients, I had this healing component where I was helping them transform and heal at a cellular level, the self sabotage that was holding them back. And that was kind of my primary focus the first probably five to six years as I was in business, but when I decided that I really wanted to work with women because I started to find that most of the women I were working with, were experiencing burnout to such a high degree. And I started just seeing this pattern over and over and over again, around women, even though I wasn't working with a start, it's like the bells started going off. It was like these, like little breadcrumbs kept coming into my experience where I was, like, getting opportunities to speak to women's groups. And, you know, I and that was the thing is I was just coaching and doing healing work for a long time. And then I started to speak around it. And I ended up becoming a fairly well known public speaker in the Denver Metro area, which is where I, where I grew up here in Colorado. And so all of these skills started to culminate and build upon one another, and about five or six years ago, because I've been in business now for about 10 years, I worked with a business coach who was like, you know, he had he taught you how to create a system, a step by step approach. And he was like, every one of us has this blueprint or a roadmap that you can offer your clients, what's yours? And I started to think about how do I take all these skills, and not just the skills but the knowledge that comes with this and the step by step process that I had sort of taken myself through, even though it didn't seem that way at the time? How do I turn that into a step by step process? And so that's what I did, I actually created a self rescue roadmap and a compass that I now use, with my female clients, and I, I call my target market worn out working Wonder Woman, because they're tired, they've been working their little tail off. And they're also Wonder Woman, because they're trying to do everything for everyone. And that whole idea of a self rescue compass and roadmap really started to solidify. And so I came up with a six step compass. That is, it's not necessarily telling them what to do. It's providing them with tools and resources and assessments that help them figure out their own unique self rescue path. And that's the thing I love about it, because I used to work in the corporate world. And I used to synthesize and automate things back then. And so I was, I sort of figured out a way to automate the healing path for the worn out working Wonder Woman, so to speak, not, you know, like how to actually come up with your own self rescue plan. And that's what I do today. That's a big part of what I do today. And so, you know, learning from my own mistakes, and then figuring out a way to teach that in a way that actually is unique and individualized. I've never done anything like that before. But I feel like that energy was a big part of me, my vision for greatness, right was how do I take what I've learned and teach it in a way that really truly leads to transformation. And it's truly individual and unique for each person, not just some cookie cutter thing that I'm offering to people that doesn't work for everyone, you know? Absolutely. So that's kind of where that came from. And that's been a big driving force, in me continuing to keep going. And it's one of the things that continues to help me up level because that's sort of the basic foundation of my business now. And now I just want to get that self rescue roadmap and compass in as many women's hands as I possibly can. So now I'm thinking about, okay, how do I structure my business? So I'm not working one on one as much anymore. I'm working more in group group format, and how do I get this out into the world into more hands, and pretty soon, once I've got that, you know, group program up and I freed up some of my one on one time, I'm going to write a book about it. And all of those things. So it's again, it's just a continual journey that keeps propelling me forward in really beautiful and amazing ways.

Robert Peterson  18:42  

Oh, so good. So I want to dig into the worn out working Wonder Women a little more, I think, obviously, I've watched my wife and her journey and my sister in her journey. And obviously, I, I believe there's a tendency inside of women to I guess the only word I can come up with subservient themselves to whatever tasks they're, they come into, so right as a wife, they, they submit to their, to their husbands as a mother, they submit to their children as a, as a, you know, a worker in the workplace, they submit to the needs of the workplace, right? They're, they're problem solvers. They're there, they, they give up themselves to become and do whatever role they end up. You know, and, and I think it's, it's different with men, I don't feel like men, you know, give up their identity, in the roles that they take in the corporate world, in the business world. And I know that our identity, right, we always say, Well, what do you know? What do you do and it's, you know, it's always our title. It's always our role, but there's something different about the way a woman takes on a role and in. And I think it's part of that mother motherly instinct, I think the wife Lee in motherly instinct has a natural tendency towards giving themselves up for their, for their children giving themselves up for their job giving themselves up for their whatever whatever place they lean into, whether that's the the soccer team or the, you know, the corporate job. I feel like and I don't know that that's necessarily been identified. I mean, obviously, I think the airlines take it very seriously, there's a reason that they tell everybody on the plane, you know, hey, the oxygen masks down, you know, put yours on first. And then they go one by one to remind the mothers Look, your instinct is going to be to put your mask on your child first, we're telling you again, right now reminding you that you need to put yours on first, because you will pass out and then both of you will not get oxygen. And so I think that they recognize that this instinct is very real. And it applies to more situations than just the Mother Child situation. I think it absolutely impacts women in all of their roles in all those situations.

Jess Bonasso  21:21  

Yeah, I would agree with what you're postulating here, so to speak. Um, you know, it's interesting, because I was married for a little while, and I'm trying to work through some of the conflict that was going on in that relationship. Before our marriage ended, I had worked with a relationship mentor. And her name is Allison Armstrong, many of your listeners may know who she is, but I will tell you what going through her programs was another one of those life changing things. So it's like that pain of not not being able to come to healthy agreements in my relationship, because this is one of the things that happened with my axe was that he's making great money. And I for a little while, was actually the primary breadwinner between the two of us. Actually, I think I made more money than him throughout the entirety of our relationship, except for maybe when I was starting my business and not making very much money. But even when I was the primary breadwinner, I was also the one that was primarily responsible for everything on the homefront. And I didn't even have kids, right. So we didn't have children at that point. But I was the one that would do the grocery shopping, I was the one that would, you know, not necessarily clean all of the house, but I would clean most of the house and I was the one that would coordinate the parties and I was the one that would do. You know, I would plan things and make sure all the people got their gifts. And you know, and so when I started to work with this relationship, mentor Allison, she was talking about, one of the things that was really mind blowing for me is that she talked about the difference, the biological difference between men and women plays a role in relationship issues that show up and also in the inequity. That shows up the way that unpaid labor is divided on the homefront. It plays a role in that. And so from a from a biological instinct, if we were to go back to caveman cavewoman days, this was one of the things that she was saying is men are sort of hardwired to provide and protect for their family and their loved ones, which is why for a very long time, men are the ones that would go and do the work. And the women would be hardwired to nurture and take care of their family. And this is a biological sort of compulsion that stems from, like, hundreds and 1000s of years of, you know, genetics being passed down and this biological imprinting that we're talking about. And so one of the things that she was sharing with the women who came to this women's relationship workshop was how important it was that we learn how to start taking better care of ourselves and fueling ourselves more often more regularly, and also how to set better boundaries, how to manage our energy more effectively, and how to have those harder conversations with our loved ones, On the homefront, so that we can get the help and support we need and not sacrifice ourselves. Because like you said, it's sort of like this history, history or habit of self sacrifice that happens with women. So just by becoming aware that this is a biological compulsion is step one in healing that is like, Oh, where am I self sacrificing now I actually know that I'm self sacrificing, I can be more conscious about it and see when I'm doing it, and then from there developing new habits and behaviors that prevent you from falling into the old biological compulsion to just automatically say yes to everyone and everything and, and sacrifice yourself in the process. And so that was a big part of my growth journey. And it's one of the things that I teach to the women that I work with Today is, you know, hey, you've got a biological compulsion compulsion that you've got to learn how to recognize and practice dealing with every single day so that it doesn't rear up its ugly head and cause you to burn yourself out in the process.

Robert Peterson  25:16  

Well, that's and I think it takes the, it takes the limiting beliefs to another level, right, all of us have the voice in our head, all of us have the lizard part of our brain that's trying to keep us alive, right? That, that, if we step out of our comfort zone, we're gonna get eaten by a lion because he's right outside the door. And, and the brain has not evolved beyond that, you know, protecting us. And that's why so much. I mean, it's interesting to me, I think a big part of our culture is driven now is convenience, right, convenience, Trumps almost everything in our culture. And I think it's, it's the marketplace satisfying that comfort zone and satisfying that, that belief of, you know, I've got to, I've got to protect myself. And so convenience just keeps us in our comfort zone. And I think that combined with the women's instinct to self sacrifice, and, and I think there's an identity issue that they have to address, and be okay with, right, this is we are going to push against your natural instinct. And it's and it's okay, you don't have to align yourself with this instinct to sacrifice yourself. That instinct was designed and was planted in the brain 1000s and 1000s of years ago to keep the human species alive. Yes, that's no longer necessary. Exactly. And so and so it's, it's giving women permission to say, your body and brain are going to say this and are going to want to do this. It's okay to change it, it's okay to set new boundaries, it's okay to reprogram it. And when we reprogram it, we discover this incredible superpower within women to, to influence to serve to do amazing, amazing things. And, and, and they've been held back. And, the sad thing is that they've held themselves back. And, and, and I know women listening, you're going no, we haven't got, but logically they have.

Jess Bonasso  27:20  

Yeah, yeah, unconsciously they've held themselves back, but you hit the nail on the head there, you know, if we're constant, if we're if we're consistently fueling ourselves, and we're running on a full tank, we have the ability to be very powerful. And we have the ability to actually take on more and do more and experience more in life from a place of fullness, than when we're running on an empty tank. And so just shifting people's perspectives, their mindset, and their understanding of how this works, like a lot of women think, oh, no, you know, I don't have time to take care of myself. And it's not important to take care of myself. I'm not valuable enough to take care of myself. But really, at the end of the day, it is a superpower. Right? You mentioned self care earlier, before we got to the interview. You know, I often say this idea of self care, right? Saying yes to you actually is a superpower. It is the thing that's going to make you stronger than you are now, more productive than you are now, more powerful, more, more efficient, more effective than you are right now. But one thing I want to mention is that it's not just about the biological imprinting that we're dealing with either. So this is another interesting component that I've learned, especially over, I grew up when I was in my 20s. I told you, I was going to school, getting my undergrad and all of that and my undergraduate degree, I got a degree in sociology. And I remember reading a book called The second shift. I can't remember the author off the top of my head. But it was this book about how heterosexual couples handled equality On the homefront. And the couples that they interviewed. They all had a very different definition of what equality on the home front looked like, there was one couple who said, okay, the man was going to take care of everything on the outside of the house, and the woman was going to take care of everything on the inside of the house. And that was how they were

Robert Peterson  29:09  

handled a pretty simple, civilized, simple, simplified version of reality.

Jess Bonasso  29:15  

Right, right. And so that was what was working, quote, unquote, for them. And another couple was like, you know, I'll take care of half of the things like I'll do, I'll do the laundry, and the things that need to get done once a week and you do all the daily activities, like I'll do the weekly activities, you do the daily activities, which is also still not super equal, right. So the other component that's in this here, is we've got this and you know, for lack of a better word, there's some patriarchal programming and conditioning about what equality looks like. And okay, so let's go back in time, for a time there. Women were like you said subservient, the man was the one who was in power . They were in charge of the household in terms of like they. Their word was what went and the woman was like, Okay, I'm going to take care of everything underneath you. But whatever you say goes. And they would go take care of things like the money making side of things they would provide for everything on the home front, the mother would take care of everything inside the house, right? And then you've got women coming into the workforce. So this old, generational and patriarchal programming conditioning, all of a sudden is being offended. But we still are operating from that, while now also trying to figure out how to provide which is typically a traditionally male role in heterosexual relationships. And so there's a lot of heterosexual couple of women who are going wait, which 1am I supposed to be, or there's even not heterosexual women who are being raised by heterosexual moms who had unclear ambiguous identity, right. And so we're still seeing a lot of that inequality On the homefront, with women taking on more than their fair share, even when we're just talking about the mental and emotional load that comes with all the planning and the coordinating. Even if you split everything down the middle women tend to plan and coordinate things more on the homefront. And it's just, it's so fascinating to me to look at it from a sociological perspective. So you've got the human instinct side, you've got the sociological perspective. And then of course, you've got the psychological perspective, our ego plays into all of this because of our programming and conditioning that says you've got to over give over achieve,

Robert Peterson  31:29  

The reality is that, obviously, some of these brain things we talked about the limiting beliefs in the voice trying to keep you in your comfort zone is 10s of 1000s of years of programming. And it's not, it's not where it needs to be for our own good. And then, of course, these patriarchal instincts of women, you know, shifting into the workplace, that's less than 100 years. I know. And so, we're trying to overcome some habits, right? And then, of course, most of us are an imprint of our parents, right, our parents did the best day job with the best job they could with the tools that they had. But they were really the first generation post war figuring out, you know, mother and father going into the workplace. So I was raised, my mom was home for the first five years or so. And then she went to work. And then and then that's all we knew was mom and dad, both working. But the reality now is, not only do we have both parents working, we have tons of single family units happening with both single dads and single moms. And that's complaining, creating a completely new dynamic. And there's other other dynamics at play. And, and the truth is, I mean, I've had multiple women on the show, who are trying to, you know, increase, women in the boardroom increase women's role at the table and, and women need, you know, their voice needs to be heard, but, but in the in the corporate structure, you know, I mean, I've interviewed a couple women in oil and gas and automotive and in industries where they have to do that extra 10 or 20%. To, to sit at the table, right to feel like they belonged at the table. And, they never felt welcome at the table. They felt like they were competing against the structure, and not just not just the men at the table, but the actual structure itself.

Jess Bonasso  34:04  

Yeah, that's a social construct that puts that structure in place. Absolutely.

Robert Peterson  34:08  

Yeah. And of course, the men, the men unintentionally, in many cases, trying to protect that structure, right, protect themselves and their position and, and, and get defensive and weirdness. But I obviously am a huge advocate and champion of women and champion of minorities and wanting to get more voices at the table because there is super power in that perspective, right? Women bring a perspective that men cannot see, men are biologically incapable of seeing the perspective that women can bring in. So how much more powerful is our organization if we allow those voices at the table? And I think it's the same for the minority voices, their experiences, we will never. I will never understand . I can read them and study him and say I understand these experiences. But the bottom line is I don't, and I can't and, and I can come with an openness. And I can say, I want to hear I want your voice at the table, because I want your opinion, I think having your voice at the table will make our organization, our company, our, our, our world, a stronger place, when when we start to listen to each other, and we start to give, give people the voice that they deserve. And, and but it's but like you said, it's super challenging to tell others. Look, we're, we're pushing against 1000s of years of, of history, and programming, and we're pushing against the sociology and of course, now we're pushing against the psychology because we're trying to hold on to what we've gotten, and not let go of it, and not on purpose, but in and then there are the evils in there and where they are trying to do it on purpose. And they are trying to be destructive, and they are trying to keep the separations in place. And, so there it is an uphill uphill battle. But I think they're people like yourself who are empowering women and, and who are opening these doors, my wife is shifting into that same space with her tools and experience it and I think the more that we can help people see, look up, look how powerful you are, look how much impact you can have. And, I think women are far more capable right there. They are going to school and working in a job and raising the children and, you know, and taking everybody to school and soccer and everywhere else and keeping the house in order. I mean, there really is that the biological instinct gives them more power. And maybe that's what the men are afraid of. Is, in reality, when we empower these women that they're far more capable than we are. So I think I love the conversation. I love that. I just think, obviously, we need to talk about it more, and women need to hear it more and need to be encouraged and empowered. So I think one of the challenges you mentioned is that when we're properly fueled, when we're taking care of our energy, and we're taking care of our body and our mind, we actually can do more than we were doing before we burned out. Yeah. And I think that self care doesn't feel that way. For many people, especially when they're in that burnout stage where you end up where many women end up and men end up, they feel like no self care is selfish, right? Because now I'm cutting off my family and I'm cutting off I'm gonna say no to a bunch of stuff. And, and and it just won't be the same if I don't I don't see, right in the middle of the burnout. They don't see how it could be possible that I could do more than what I'm doing now? Because that's crazy.

Jess Bonasso  37:50  

I agree. I think that there is. I think it's changing. I think that the idea of self care and making yourself a priority is starting to be better understood and appreciated. But again, as we're talking about all the patriarchal, the generational, the biological imprinting, programming and conditioning, there's, it's going to take us a while before we're really embracing that across the board. Um, but it's interesting, because, um, you know, what we're talking about here is I think a lot of people when they think about, you know, if you go back to caveman cavewoman times, you you typically wouldn't have found, for example, a heterosexual couple, in a cave by themselves living on their own, they, they would have been in community there that, you know, if if, if something happened to the woman, and she got sick, there were other women in the community who could come in and pick up the slack. Right. And there's still cultures here today, right now in this society and in this world today that are still very community oriented. And I think because we've moved away from that community dynamic, and really gotten more individualized and we start to look at well, community is just in our home, and therefore like, for example, single parents, right? If you're the one who's responsible for everything on the home front and making sure you're the provider and the nurturer and the caretaker, it doesn't come to us. And we don't realize how important it is to actually ask for help, and bring support in or hire help or delegate out, support and help or barter for help in some way, shape or form. We don't, we've gotten away, like we've gotten away from that community based stuff. And we've lost our ability to creatively work through this idea that we are all alone. Even if it's just our family is all alone and we're we have to be responsible for each other or I'm all alone and I have to be responsible for my children. We've gotten into this idea where we're really sort of like, I don't know how to describe it, but Well,

Robert Peterson  40:00  

I think, yeah, isolation is one. But I think there's a combination that's happened in the United States, specifically because of the way we were founded, right, this independent group independent spirit, and we, and we, we, we've learned this Declaration of Independence in this, this, this independent, independent and independent spirits that road out west, and yes, and this, that independence combined with garage door openers, right, we can open our garage door without even getting out of our car, we can get into our car and close the garage door. And literally, we're boxed into our house. And, and we don't talk to our neighbors, and we don't create community. And, we avoid it. And now of course, we have all these electronic ways to create a false community, that, on the surface, feels like it satisfies our need for community, but of course, that community doesn't solve any of the issues that you were talking about, right? When, when somebody's sick, there's somebody else to step in and help when somebody's in jail, there's somebody to go pick them up and help them and, and, and, and community and family has, has shrunk, right, we've, we're no longer you know, three or four generations in the same same location and, and those generations growing up with their neighbors and their friends. And, and I definitely think that there's, there is a definite loss of community. And that's led to a loss of hope for for a lot of people, which I think leads to the rise in suicides right now. And, and, and there's a rising fear because fear spreads through that, that independent side, that isolation, when fear spreads, there's nobody to say, to challenge it, right? There's nobody to say, Wait, that doesn't. That doesn't impact us. I mean, it might be true, it might be something terrible happening. But it, but we don't, it doesn't impact us. And if somebody doesn't put truth into that, and, and set this Well, for me, it's really the power of the Serenity Prayer, right? So much personal growth and development really is as simple as you know, knowing what you can control and knowing what you can't control and the wisdom to know the difference, right, and, and letting go of all of these things in our culture that I can't control, I have no no control over these things. So I can't allow myself to fear them, I can't allow myself to get caught up in them. And, our culture really loves this place. Right? This is the drama cycle. And in the drama circle, the news cycle feeds it the television shows, feed it the reality shows, feed it Facebook feeds it, and if you get caught over there, right that I think that's where it's really easy to feel like you're a victim of all of these things that are going on and and you slide below the line of courage and you end up in this place of shame and guilt and, and you lose hope and all those negative energy vibrations, those negative emotions that have such negative impact on your body, on your feeling on your, on your mind. You talked about that, taking responsibility on October 5 2007. And you jumped right from, from this place of despair, to the place of higher energy, right, the line of courage and above the line of courage is joy and love and, and serenity and peace and and guess what happens when your brain jumps up there. Your brain is no longer in this fight and flight place of cortisol and adrenaline. Which we just just, it comes up all the time. But cortisol and adrenaline are designed for motion. And they're designed for fight or flight. But the typical American is sitting on their couch getting this dump of adrenaline and cortisol into their body and they're not doing anything with it. Yeah, it's not going anywhere. And here's another biological difference is it only takes men about eight hours to process that if they don't go jogging and running away. It takes 24 hours for women's bodies to process that. And so you're dumping this junk into your body and your body's saying we need to run away and you're sitting on the couch, or, you know, crying in the corner because because you're you know, and and when you get above that line of courage, the body dumps all these really cool things like dopamine and oxytocin and serotonin and these other endorphins. They're designed to make you feel joy. They're designed to make you feel better. And obviously, I think a big part of our epidemic of depression in this country is that experience. That one unknown experience that people are stuck in fight and flight because their brain is believing that they are at risk of death at every turn? And of course, the lack of hope and that lack of indifference, that lack of connection to community continues to feed that right and then of course our pharmaceutical and our disease care system, feeds it right on top of it but because we're not treating health, we're not caring for people's health, we're just treating disease and, and continuing down the cycle of, let's just put a bandaid on it. Let's just give it aspirin to make the symptoms go away. And we treat symptoms instead of causes. Which is a terrible system. Yeah. But it goes right into this

Jess Bonasso  45:24  

Yeah, absolutely. And I think you hit the nail on the head earlier, when you were talking, I was trying to get the word right. But that independence, right, and it goes back to what we were talking about earlier. It's like that, especially for women. And but men too, it's like, we had this dynamic where women were codependent on a man for so long. Now they're moving towards a blue yacht to be independent. And men are trying to figure out how to play in all of this as well. Right? So then you don't have the interdependency. Right. So there's those three things, you've got codependency independence. And that's like two opposite ends of the spectrum. And what we really need to do is figure out how to get back to the middle ground. And I think, from a sociological perspective, that's starting to happen. It's going to take some time before we really get there. These are things that take sometimes 10s 1010 decades or centuries to get to. But I think if we can get to that place of interdependence, whether it be in our home, in the workplace, right, where there's more cooperation and collaboration and community happening, where we can start to build community in our in our social circles, and have places where we can go so that weren't, we're not sitting in our own island, all those things that you were talking about the levels of the mass, the levels of consciousness and emotional regulation, and all of that, I think we'll see a lot of that start to self regulate and move to the higher side of those levels of consciousness and emotions. So when you were talking about the low level feelings and emotions, a lot of that happens when we feel isolated. Or we're on the extreme ends of the independence and codependent spectrum, because if you're too independent, you feel like you have to do it all on your own. And if you're codependent, you're doing it all on your own and you're exhausted either way, it's exhausting. So coming back to that middle ground, and finding a way to create more collaboration, more community more connection, like the three C's, I think is going to be a big part of healing, what we're dealing with at the sociological and psychological level, for sure, I think you hit the nail on the head 100%.

Robert Peterson  47:34  

And love those three C's, right? I mean, I think we were, we were really created for collaboration, and we've turned into competition. And that's not to say that competition doesn't have value for growth, I think competition can be healthy. But the majority of our competition is unhealthy. And, and, and we've created, we've created competition, at the expense of collaboration. And, I think collaboration and community are absolutely necessary. For me, it's recognizing how many entrepreneurs that independent spirit is, is holding them back from asking for help and holding them back from, from being willing to say, you know, we, I need to, I need some help, but I'm alone out here, I feel like I'm on an island. And, and that independent spirit inside of them says you got this you can you can do it, you can figure it out, right? You're an adult, right? You can, you can still do it. Well, there's a lot of suck it up buttercup, right? And they're pushing through things that they don't have to push through alone, that they can hire a coach they can take, take the time for self care, and their business won't disappear. And when they do, they actually become more empowered, and they become more capable of accomplishing more because they focus on the right things instead of just busy and, and they focus on the right relationships instead of just, you know, randomly out there trying to create connections. But when you create the right connections that are encouraging and empowering and and building your business up, right? Not sure which personal growth philosopher whatever said, you know, rising tide raises all ships, when you're with the right group of people. You're, you're elevating yourself at the same time as elevating them and I think we create that interdependence of being intentional about the relationships that are around you and in an entrepreneurial space. It's you know, when you're sharing your dream is it? Are you sharing it with people that are encouraging you? Are you sharing it with people they're telling you it's impossible?

Jess Bonasso  49:41  

Exactly. Yeah. Like attracts like, right? And so you know, you are who the 10 people that you spend the most time with. So we might as well make that that little group of people, people that you can trust and lean on for support and help uplift you like you were saying it's like really got it Choose wisely like one of the things that I teach in my, in my training program, my self rescue compass roadmap program that I was telling you about called the break hearted way. There's a module that I dedicate completely to this learning the art of energy management. And that's figuring out what are the energy drains that need to be plugged because and this could be the people that you hang out with. It could be the mindset and the self sabotage that you're dealing with. It could be saying yes to too many things and being overcommitted. Like there's pretty much anything that doesn't feel good in your life, I would classify it as an energy drain. And instead of being a victim to that, getting really creative and figuring out how to plug that drain. So for example, as an entrepreneur, or a solopreneur, who wears all the hats of the business owners, or business owners, a big part of my growth and evolution is learning. Okay, what are the tasks and activities that I can do? That I don't like doing that takes me a long time to do that? Drain my energy? How do I hire somebody and give that out, right? So I come up with a way to look at it as this opportunity for me to become creative about the problem, and then go into solution finding mode. And oftentimes that solution, finding mode is not about doing it all by myself, and figuring out how to better manage my time, it's more about how do I plug that energy, drain and creative ways and actually ask for help and support going and finding the community that you can lean on to receive that help and support. And if you don't have that, then that has to become an active part of what you get out there and start creating, so that you don't feel like you have to do it on your own all on your own. So I teach a lot about self rescue. But believe it or not, asking for help and hiring help. And delegating help is a big part of self rescue, right? That's what allows us to be that interdependent, healthy, full, integrated version of ourselves where we're operating from a place of wholeness, rather than disintegration and drain and depletion. So

Robert Peterson  51:57  

let's talk about the power of those relationships you mentioned, right? The amalgam of the 10 people closest to you, and like attracts like, giving yourself permission to change your relationships. Right. And, and obviously, some of its family. And so that are friends where you can, you can choose but, but really, it's giving yourself permission to set some boundaries. And you know, and if it's a family member that doesn't believe in your dream, you say, You know what, we can hang out at Thanksgiving, but I'm not inviting you over every Sunday, because I just, I'm not going to have, you know, mush in my life on a regular basis. Or, you know, what we can hang out as family, but I'm not going to discuss my dream and the things that I'm working on with you, right, and so, so you can choose these boundaries, right? I'm not saying you have to break the relationship entirely. Exactly. Give yourself permission to set boundaries that, you know, I, I love that. There's a great interview that Bill Belichick does, and you know, he's, he's a very focused football coach. And the reason he's very good at what he does is because he's very focused, and, and the reporters just try to badger him about, you know, gossiping, and, and talking about one of his football players. And he's like, No, I'm not going to talk about that. I'm going to you want to ask me questions about today's football game, or, and then the reporter just keeps going, right? I want to know, tell me more about this player? And he's like, No, I already answered that question. He's like, Well, no, you didn't. I was like, Yeah, I did. And, and he walks away. But, but he went into that interview, knowing the boundaries that that were limits for him. And I think that so many of us aren't willing to stop at the boundary. Right? And, and it's so easy to get up, get into a room and get, allow yourself to get bashed or allow yourself to jump in and bash, bash others. And if you have boundaries, if you've committed to those boundaries, and you say, You know what, I'm not gonna let you talk about my business. I'm not gonna let you talk about my children, you know what, whatever boundary you need to have, it's important to know that going into the situation and giving yourself permission to set those boundaries, and giving yourself permission to hold those boundaries. And if the other person refuses to honor them, give yourself permission to, you know, put distance in that relationship. Right?

Jess Bonasso  54:13  

Yeah. Walk away or limit. What amount of time you spent with them. Yeah. Yeah. I love the idea that the topic of boundaries, I could talk about that for days, too, but you hit Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And, and that is a big part of plugging those energy drains, right. It's like, I think what we're talking about here is figuring like, I think a lot of times we run on autopilot. We're operating like the first half of our life, we're operating out of all that imprinting, the conditioning and the trauma that we were talking about earlier, the biological instincts. You know, we're not we're not operating from a place of consciousness and choice. We're operating from this sort of drift mode, right? Like we're we're just drifting through life doing what we've been taught to do, but not questioning it until we get to the point We're we're like, wait a minute, why am I doing it this way, this isn't working, it's destroying my life, I need to do it differently, right like little wake up moment that I had, I was drifting based on my own, you know, beliefs and the things that were taught and told to me throughout the first 20 to 35 years of my life, and it wasn't until I got hit rock bottom, it's like that pain became a catalyst, a wake up call, to literally it a woke me, right, it was like this dark night of the soul that shook me up, and made me more conscious that I've got some problems I need to address and I was then able to, from that place of consciousness make more, this is the piece that I want to really bring to the table here, I was able to become more discerning and make more conscious choices about how I was going to spend my time and energy and that, you know, I, there's still times, even today where I may make choices to hang out or spend time with people or participate in projects and things like that, that become energy drains. But the thing is, is if I make it a daily practice, and I choose to learn and grow from all of those mistakes, and all of those challenges, from a place of discernment, and really practice growth and gratitude from those experiences, so I don't keep repeating those same mistakes, I'm choosing to not repeat those mistakes over and over again. It's a game changer, right. So learning how to create change from a place of choice rather than being on autopilot, I think it's not something that's easy, but it can be taught. And that's one of the things that I teach in my program is waking you up, we do Enneagram Personality Typing to help you see where your blind spots are, and your unhealthy habits and behaviors so you can kind of see what's not working. And then we talk about creative ways to plug all the things that are not working in your life so that you can move forward and start to make more conscious, more discerning choices. And that was magic in that.

Robert Peterson  57:01  

Absolutely. And it really is about being intentional, right, we're going to be more intentional with our time or more intentional with our energy. And you can do things that are energy drains, the important thing is recognizing that this thing is an energy drain that that I know is going to take more out of me. And so where am I going to put that energy back and realize that I can sacrifice my energy here? The challenge for most people on autopilot is they're sacrificing it every day and are unaware of the sacrifice. And so, you know, my wife and I do, we were chaplains, and we serve on Saturday nights, and typically it's late. And so not just an energy drain, it's physically different, right? Our normal bedtime is nine o'clock. And on Saturday nights when we do these events, it's 11 or 12 or 1230. Or last weekend, it was one and so we recognize that Sunday, it's okay to take a nap, right? We don't typically want to take naps. But Sunday, it's okay to take a nap to get us back on our rhythm, you know, for the rest of the week. But, we do our events on Saturday intentionally because we're serving a community of people that we love and we want to, you know, we are the energy for that community, we are the light to that community. And so we can't be there like we can't be there to suck their energy. Because that can happen too. Right? You go into these situations and you become the energy vampire. And you're sucking other people's energy rather than being the giver and giving other people energy. But the only way you can give that energy is as if your cup is filled up. Right.

Jess Bonasso  58:39  

Right. Exactly. Yeah, I love I love that you do that. And that's another thing that I teach is like, okay, you've got these energy drains, if you have to do it, be mindful about it. And consciously choose to fuel your energy either before or after that thing.

Robert Peterson  58:55  

Jess, what do you do? What do you love to do? In your free time? We'll switch gears a little.

Jess Bonasso  59:00  

Okay. Well, we're talking about energy fueling activities I adore spending time in nature. So hiking and getting out and taking my dog for a walk every day. That's one of my you know, walking my dog or going for a hike every single day is an absolute staple of my self care routine and I live in salida Colorado which is right in the heart of the Rocky Mountains. And so you know, I've got hiking trails literally outside of my doorstep. So spending time in nature hotsprings I love reading personal growth and development books which is kind of funny because not everybody does like that. But I'm like I'm super committed to my growth and evolution. So reading about that kind of stuff kind of lights me up. I love listening to music, and I love cooking and camping. You know, a lot of outdoor stuff obviously you can tell it's kind of my jam and then helping my clients. I love what I do for a living. I actually even though it's work, it's work that I really love and enjoy. I look forward to getting up and working with my clients every single day. It's something I'm blessed to be doing.

Robert Peterson  1:00:06  

On that note of serving your clients, what what is the big dream, the big

Jess Bonasso  1:00:10  

a dream would be to contribute to the awakening and ascension of every single woman on the face of this planet. Because I feel like even though men need that, too, we're talking about how powerful women are. And I think when we can finally wake up to our self sacrificing patterns and behaviors and all the programming conditioning that we've talked about, I think that we're going to contribute greatly to the tipping point, right? I believe that is like, what do you call the 100th monkey theorem. I don't know if you've ever heard this theory. But you know, this, this, these people were studying monkeys on an island and studying the behaviors of these monkeys, and one monkey dropped a banana on the ground. And for the first time ever, and all the research that they were doing, they saw this monkey pick up the banana and wipe it off, wipe the sand off and eat the banana. None of them had ever done that before. This was a conscious monkey that somehow changed his behavior. And all of a sudden, within a two week period, all the monkeys on the island were picking up the bananas that they dropped and eating them after they wiped off the sand. And I feel like from a human race standpoint, I feel like and I think men can be part of this ascension process and the tipping point as well. But I feel like if I can help as many women as possible wake up to their true nature, and what what's going to help them operate from a place of health and fullness and wholeness, that there's going to be a tipping point that literally leads to the ascension and awakening of the entire planet. So when you were talking about the levels, the map of consciousness where unhealthy feelings and emotions are in the low vibration, I feel like there's going to be a tipping point where all of us just sort of ascend to a higher level of consciousness and we start operating from that place, which will be very different than where we are now. So it's a big vision. And I don't know how much impact I can have on that in this lifetime. And I don't really care. I'm just going to do everything I can to contribute to that as much as possible.

Robert Peterson  1:02:10  

I love it. Jess, you spent an hour hanging out with these women entrepreneurs and you want to leave him with just Vanessa's Words of Wisdom, what would you share?

Jess Bonasso  1:02:21  

Okay, here's what I would share. Embrace the idea that everything is always happening for you, and not against you. So learn from everything. If life sucks right now. Sit down, figure out what's going to work better. Take responsibility for fixing and correcting what's not working, ask for help if you need it, and then get out there and take action to fix and correct it. And keep doing that rinse and repeat every single day. Everything is always working out for you. No matter what.

Robert Peterson  1:02:51  

Jess, thank you so much for hanging out today for sharing your passion and purpose and for empowering women around the world. And I love your dream and and I just hope that this show and our audience will be a little part of it.

Jess Bonasso  1:03:05  

I hope so too. Thanks for the opportunity to be here. It's a pleasure chatting with you today.